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foreign

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[Music]

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[Laughter]

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[Music]

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I'm joined by my friend and co-host

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Darren EXO academian Darren good to see

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you nice chatting with you what's going

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on what's happening this week

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good to see you too uh it's been an

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interesting week exciting week getting

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ready for this trip to New York for the

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the inquiry into anomalous phenomena and

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the phenomenon did I say that right

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anomalous experiences and the phenomenon

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yes uh coming up in New York uh this

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next weekend so that's going to be

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exciting just to

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meet all these uh people that we kind of

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like you know talk to virtually in

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social media and whatnot

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to be able to meet not only some of them

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but a whole bunch of them all in one go

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I mean the number of people who said hey

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I'm looking forward to meeting you in

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New York I'm like wow I'm gonna be like

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every everywhere turn there's gonna be

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someone uh to meet so it's going to be

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an intense uh impacting and I'm sure

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transformative week for those of us who

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are going to intend in person

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yeah I'm incredibly excited for that I'm

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very bummed out that I can't be there

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um I will be there in spirit no doubt

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and I'll be there virtually I'll be

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watching along uh from home on that

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virtual feed uh By the time folks are

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hearing this episode The lectures will

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basically be over uh I think you're

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slotted for the 4 P.M time slot uh

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roughly on Saturday uh and this usually

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comes out in the in the evening so

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hopefully those of you are listening in

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you've had a full day of UAP phenomena

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conversation and and some of you may

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have even uh gotten a chance to meet

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Darren in person which I hope so and

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you'll get to experience uh the the

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wonderful person that he is uh in the

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um well you know it's this episode's

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going to be interesting we've talked

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about this one for a a few sessions now

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our kind of private sessions on as we

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plan out our episodes and things we want

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to get to and territory we want to cover

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and this one I think felt like a very

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natural uh topic and that is looking

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back on where we started in this journey

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and kind of where we are right now and

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and it's interesting too that uh we're

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actually having this conversation today

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this is the day before Yom Kippur uh

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neither of us come from a Jewish

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tradition but that is a holiday that is

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often sort of

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uh connoted with a day of reflection

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um and looking back and you know taking

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stock and so

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uh this this feels very natural to be

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doing that uh well as we kind of go

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through that exercise

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you know I think we're going to start

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with a very familiar Place uh that most

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folks who are listening probably can

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identify with you probably all or many

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of you started in this place as well

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although I know there are also many who

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have been on this journey for for

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decades and we're grateful for your

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listenership as well but what I'm

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speaking about specifically is

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you know X's we kind of look back over

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the last few years with the initiatives

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of to the stars and Tom Delong Chris

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melon Lou Elizondo uh Jim semivan and so

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many others looking back it's almost

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been five years now

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um

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how do you kind of

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see where that started and kind of what

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that was trying to do and all the many

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conversations that have taken place

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since then with many of those uh initial

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Advocates and you know where we are

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right now

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and so and not just in a you know here's

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the facts of progression but

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but where you are where you situate

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yourself in that Journey having

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reflected on those few years and and

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your own beliefs uh today about the

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phenomenon

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yeah well it's interesting because those

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people you mentioned a lot of them even

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for them uh what they think about the

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phenomenon what they think is going on

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is kind of a combination of personal

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experience and sort of Intel that

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they've you know come across somehow

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um and I think that's that's something

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that really I would want to highlight

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for people is that you know I sometimes

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have opportunities to talk to people

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that people would consider insiders and

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uh I'm always reminded of that that you

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know people are still people and that

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it's not like there's this one group of

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people that has this shining you know

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pot of gold of Intel that's super clear

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and they know exactly what's going on

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and and they just unfortunately can't

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tell people because of their ndas or

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something it's not like that there's

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um like we are very aware of there's

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plenty of data saying something's going

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on uh they're aware of that they are

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working to get information out of these

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siled uh compartmentalized

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um data storehouses basically in these

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different agencies and whatnot and

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that's still a challenge

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but

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what I've noticed is even for them what

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they conclude about what the phenomenon

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is likely is still heavily influenced by

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their own personality by their own

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worldview and that's why you even notice

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some differences in how they will talk

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about it some being more quote unquote

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nuts and bolts some being a bit more you

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know towards the the woo side

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so that's something I would say is that

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um I still see and I've mentioned this

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even on social media

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many people for instance will hear

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someone they consider an Insider you

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know waxing philosophic about you know

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what we should think about like

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uh when it comes to the phenomenon and

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and because some of these people have a

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background in intelligence they know

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it's always helpful and useful and wise

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to open the aperture as much as you can

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ask big questions to you know step

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outside the box so you make sure you're

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not missing uh potential data or

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insights because you've limited yourself

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prematurely so in trying to encourage

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that General tendency towards

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approaching this topic some people will

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run with what's being said and said ah

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this is their way of like getting around

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their NDA and they're giving us a coded

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message and now we need to like just

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pour into that and figure out what's

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really going on and I think that's a

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misunderstanding of what's what's being

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said what's being encouraged and

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I think if there's one thing this this

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phenomenon teaches you you have to be a

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curious person who's willing to deal

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with ambiguity and for those who are

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looking for that one nugget that's going

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to lead them in the right path so they

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find the storehouse with all the Intel

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about what this actually is they're

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going to be sorely disappointed

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but there's another group of people I

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think you and I fit in this side that

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actually

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love the grand mystery you know because

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this touches every aspect of reality and

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uh I look at this and I think you do too

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more like an adventure where it's

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personally transformative it's

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culturally transformative you know it's

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a really amazing moment in human history

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and we get to be a part of it that feels

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amazing that's the way I look at this

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when I think about the entire thing over

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the last five years and how people tend

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to interact with these these sort of

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people who started the whole thing back

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in 2017.

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yeah that's an excellent summation I I

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totally identify with uh the kind of

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uh character that you painted there

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because I but but at the same time I

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think it didn't take me very long to

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recognize that

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what I was doing in in listening to

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those Insiders

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was familiar to me and I couldn't quite

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place what that familiarity was

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but but but then it came to me from my

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religious uh training and education that

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oftentimes what we see in in the the

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kind of birth of a religious tradition

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is you see individuals that are several

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steps removed from the original

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experiences or the the closer firsthand

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knowledge and they're doing their best

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to kind of transcribe uh their

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understanding of whatever it is that

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that happened and it could have happened

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a generation or two ago it's sort of

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this oral tradition that kind of gets

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passed down but but but they're the

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figureheads they're the leaders of of

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the movement and the followers who are

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eager to to know more and want to unlock

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those Secrets they're hanging on every

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single word of those leaders to come to

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certain conclusions and and really put

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it all together because in the West in

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particular at least with this was my

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upbringing I had this sense that if I

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could just put these pieces together

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that I would arrive at this place of you

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know kind of pure Enlightenment or I

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would have it figured out my my problems

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would basically disappear because I

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would have gained all of this knowledge

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the picture would be complete I think

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that's exactly what I see happening and

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in some ways I'm glad that we are now

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where we are because I personally see

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and this is after having talked with a

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lot of these people not myself

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having had opportunity to interview them

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getting to know some folks who are

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closer on the inside uh you know the the

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sheen is wearing off on that perspective

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for me and and they're becoming real

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people right you talked about this uh

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they're just real people and uh some of

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them do a very good job I think of of

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trying to tell you that although I don't

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think we do a good job of hearing what

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they are saying you know so many of them

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are very good about saying that that

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this is speculation and maybe it's

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informed speculation but but oftentimes

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it's not

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um it just comes out of having many many

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conversations with uh others who've had

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experiences and coming to their own

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conclusions and a lot of these folks are

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incredibly smart and creative and and

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and they're coming up with some some

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novel ideas that are useful in

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understanding whatever this may be but

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to take those uh uh musings and to jot

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them down as some sort of like

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scientific formula that if we just put

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these variables in the right places like

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we'll unlock the the secret potion like

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that that's not really how it how it is

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and I you know more and more I've come

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to this place of of understanding and

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and even quite frankly uh peace with

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this that that we don't have a lot of

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the answers that those who are inside

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many of these programs uh they do have

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Insight they do no secrets so I'm not

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saying that they don't but in terms of

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00:11:08,210 --> 00:11:06,480
the entirety of the picture what's

277
00:11:10,790 --> 00:11:08,220
really going on I'm not sure that they

278
00:11:13,790 --> 00:11:10,800
really have that clearness that we think

279
00:11:16,250 --> 00:11:13,800
that they do and the more that we I

280
00:11:17,930 --> 00:11:16,260
think dispense with that notion uh the

281
00:11:19,370 --> 00:11:17,940
better off will be which is not to say

282
00:11:20,509 --> 00:11:19,380
we shouldn't talk with them and

283
00:11:22,850 --> 00:11:20,519
shouldn't try to understand what they

284
00:11:25,790 --> 00:11:22,860
understand but I think it is to try to

285
00:11:28,430 --> 00:11:25,800
position that knowledge in in its

286
00:11:30,949 --> 00:11:28,440
appropriate place not place it on this

287
00:11:33,650 --> 00:11:30,959
incredible pedestal that you know even

288
00:11:34,970 --> 00:11:33,660
they would not put their understanding

289
00:11:38,509 --> 00:11:34,980
on

290
00:11:41,930 --> 00:11:38,519
yeah and I would just add that I think

291
00:11:44,030 --> 00:11:41,940
something I recognize that I notice a

292
00:11:47,150 --> 00:11:44,040
lot of especially the nuts and bolts

293
00:11:49,009 --> 00:11:47,160
crowd don't seem to recognize is that

294
00:11:52,370 --> 00:11:49,019
from my perspective you're more likely

295
00:11:58,670 --> 00:11:55,730
in a totality kind of way about what's

296
00:12:02,030 --> 00:11:58,680
going on by listening to the historic

297
00:12:05,090 --> 00:12:02,040
representation of experiencers testimony

298
00:12:07,790 --> 00:12:05,100
um that that tells a story about The Who

299
00:12:10,370 --> 00:12:07,800
right and the what

300
00:12:13,310 --> 00:12:10,380
um what the a lot of the government

301
00:12:16,069 --> 00:12:13,320
sources have is is raw data around like

302
00:12:18,650 --> 00:12:16,079
sensor systems some images you know some

303
00:12:20,150 --> 00:12:18,660
video that kind of thing but you're

304
00:12:22,009 --> 00:12:20,160
still left with the interpretation of

305
00:12:23,210 --> 00:12:22,019
what does that mean what is that raw

306
00:12:26,829 --> 00:12:23,220
Intel

307
00:12:30,050 --> 00:12:26,839
Point towards and I know that there are

308
00:12:32,509 --> 00:12:30,060
certain you know segmented parts of

309
00:12:34,310 --> 00:12:32,519
these main agencies for instance even

310
00:12:37,610 --> 00:12:34,320
within NASA

311
00:12:40,310 --> 00:12:37,620
who seek out experiencers because they

312
00:12:42,769 --> 00:12:40,320
recognize that that's the missing piece

313
00:12:45,470 --> 00:12:42,779
of the puzzle that that that NASA can

314
00:12:47,030 --> 00:12:45,480
have as much footage as you want you

315
00:12:49,610 --> 00:12:47,040
know and the astronauts that have gone

316
00:12:52,610 --> 00:12:49,620
up like Ed Mitchell have talked about

317
00:12:54,110 --> 00:12:52,620
stuff they've seen but that doesn't tell

318
00:12:56,090 --> 00:12:54,120
you who it is right when they're not

319
00:12:58,790 --> 00:12:56,100
communicating with you when they're just

320
00:13:00,110 --> 00:12:58,800
trailing your spacecraft or whatever uh

321
00:13:02,990 --> 00:13:00,120
you know or you see them from the Moon

322
00:13:05,230 --> 00:13:03,000
that doesn't tell you what their agenda

323
00:13:07,910 --> 00:13:05,240
is who they are what their background is

324
00:13:10,610 --> 00:13:07,920
but a lot of that has been communicated

325
00:13:12,110 --> 00:13:10,620
to experiencers so I think that that's

326
00:13:14,210 --> 00:13:12,120
that's a

327
00:13:16,370 --> 00:13:14,220
something I'd encourage people with is

328
00:13:18,050 --> 00:13:16,380
that that data is a lot more valuable

329
00:13:20,750 --> 00:13:18,060
than than many people still give a

330
00:13:22,190 --> 00:13:20,760
credit for and I would just add as I

331
00:13:23,389 --> 00:13:22,200
always do with my you know sort of

332
00:13:26,150 --> 00:13:23,399
disclaimer here

333
00:13:29,170 --> 00:13:26,160
you can allow for a certain amount of uh

334
00:13:31,430 --> 00:13:29,180
you know deception fraud uh

335
00:13:33,650 --> 00:13:31,440
misidentification you know mental

336
00:13:35,269 --> 00:13:33,660
illness you can you know line all those

337
00:13:37,370 --> 00:13:35,279
things up and say a certain segment of

338
00:13:40,550 --> 00:13:37,380
that data Falls in those categories

339
00:13:42,230 --> 00:13:40,560
right but you still have even if you

340
00:13:44,509 --> 00:13:42,240
allow for some of that a fair amount of

341
00:13:46,430 --> 00:13:44,519
that you have a lot of historical data

342
00:13:48,350 --> 00:13:46,440
from experiencers experiencing

343
00:13:50,930 --> 00:13:48,360
remarkably similar things even

344
00:13:51,970 --> 00:13:50,940
cross-culturally right and people who

345
00:13:54,170 --> 00:13:51,980
have

346
00:13:56,569 --> 00:13:54,180
oftentimes no history with a UFO

347
00:13:59,030 --> 00:13:56,579
phenomenon no interest in it right and

348
00:14:00,350 --> 00:13:59,040
many of those people wishing this is the

349
00:14:02,030 --> 00:14:00,360
last thing that had ever happened to

350
00:14:03,829 --> 00:14:02,040
them so

351
00:14:06,949 --> 00:14:03,839
um that to me says it's a really

352
00:14:08,449 --> 00:14:06,959
compelling data set and I just wish

353
00:14:09,949 --> 00:14:08,459
people would would look at that more

354
00:14:12,590 --> 00:14:09,959
seriously because

355
00:14:15,170 --> 00:14:12,600
sometimes sometimes in focusing on these

356
00:14:16,310 --> 00:14:15,180
these insiders and these little nuggets

357
00:14:18,530 --> 00:14:16,320
that are set in this one podcast

358
00:14:21,230 --> 00:14:18,540
interview here or there

359
00:14:23,090 --> 00:14:21,240
they're missing all the commonalities

360
00:14:25,850 --> 00:14:23,100
that show up over time in all the

361
00:14:28,069 --> 00:14:25,860
experiencer accounts so spend as much or

362
00:14:29,990 --> 00:14:28,079
more time listening to those pull out

363
00:14:31,370 --> 00:14:30,000
patterns within that data set rather

364
00:14:33,290 --> 00:14:31,380
than always trying to find the one

365
00:14:34,910 --> 00:14:33,300
nugget from somebody who happened to

366
00:14:38,509 --> 00:14:34,920
work for the government

367
00:14:40,850 --> 00:14:38,519
absolutely I think that uh you know

368
00:14:43,250 --> 00:14:40,860
people who have been studying this like

369
00:14:47,689 --> 00:14:43,260
we have and and those who follow this

370
00:14:49,970 --> 00:14:47,699
you know pretty regularly uh we have a

371
00:14:52,670 --> 00:14:49,980
decent grasp on

372
00:14:54,410 --> 00:14:52,680
the the answer to the question is this

373
00:14:56,389 --> 00:14:54,420
real you know I think I think we can

374
00:14:59,509 --> 00:14:56,399
answer that pretty affirmatively the

375
00:15:02,569 --> 00:14:59,519
Insiders really help us to get there the

376
00:15:04,610 --> 00:15:02,579
the next sort of leg of this journey if

377
00:15:07,310 --> 00:15:04,620
if we want to be on the Vanguard I want

378
00:15:09,829 --> 00:15:07,320
to be ready to help in where this is

379
00:15:12,889 --> 00:15:09,839
going is to practice

380
00:15:14,810 --> 00:15:12,899
speaking with experiencers and listening

381
00:15:16,430 --> 00:15:14,820
to experiencers and they're everywhere

382
00:15:18,290 --> 00:15:16,440
and then and some of you who are

383
00:15:20,509 --> 00:15:18,300
listening maybe experiencers you may

384
00:15:22,069 --> 00:15:20,519
have those in your family you know

385
00:15:24,550 --> 00:15:22,079
things that we can all do that I think

386
00:15:26,810 --> 00:15:24,560
just make us better people generally is

387
00:15:29,329 --> 00:15:26,820
practice being a better listener

388
00:15:32,569 --> 00:15:29,339
understanding what people have gone

389
00:15:34,850 --> 00:15:32,579
through and trying to synthesize those

390
00:15:37,730 --> 00:15:34,860
different experiences to to come to a

391
00:15:40,370 --> 00:15:37,740
broader conclusion and also leaving room

392
00:15:43,730 --> 00:15:40,380
for mystery I would encourage that as

393
00:15:46,069 --> 00:15:43,740
well that you know we can

394
00:15:47,750 --> 00:15:46,079
compile all the experiencer accounts

395
00:15:49,430 --> 00:15:47,760
together and we can do a lot of data

396
00:15:51,350 --> 00:15:49,440
analysis on that and I hope we do I hope

397
00:15:54,350 --> 00:15:51,360
that it does become something that we

398
00:15:56,269 --> 00:15:54,360
get better at doing but at the same time

399
00:15:58,009 --> 00:15:56,279
uh you know coming to that grand

400
00:15:59,990 --> 00:15:58,019
conclusion is still going to be a little

401
00:16:03,410 --> 00:16:00,000
bit of a challenge because all of those

402
00:16:05,930 --> 00:16:03,420
experiences are mediated to us through

403
00:16:08,509 --> 00:16:05,940
those individual people's lives and and

404
00:16:10,490 --> 00:16:08,519
how they understand the world and the

405
00:16:12,470 --> 00:16:10,500
the background that they have and and

406
00:16:14,569 --> 00:16:12,480
their own experience so we have to

407
00:16:18,230 --> 00:16:14,579
disentangle that in some ways to really

408
00:16:20,750 --> 00:16:18,240
get to those core nuggets of Truth

409
00:16:23,210 --> 00:16:20,760
um and even then it will still be

410
00:16:24,470 --> 00:16:23,220
challenging so you know that that to me

411
00:16:26,689 --> 00:16:24,480
is um

412
00:16:28,310 --> 00:16:26,699
it it feels like that that's kind of

413
00:16:29,750 --> 00:16:28,320
where we are I know it doesn't seem like

414
00:16:32,030 --> 00:16:29,760
it it feels like we're still in that

415
00:16:35,449 --> 00:16:32,040
season of waiting on you know the

416
00:16:38,870 --> 00:16:35,459
government to say something profound but

417
00:16:42,350 --> 00:16:38,880
we may be at a place where our Reliance

418
00:16:44,749 --> 00:16:42,360
on that is not as strong and we may be

419
00:16:46,129 --> 00:16:44,759
at a different place that a place we

420
00:16:47,509 --> 00:16:46,139
didn't think we would be which is you

421
00:16:50,689 --> 00:16:47,519
know beginning to have these

422
00:16:52,310 --> 00:16:50,699
conversations with people who have are

423
00:16:54,290 --> 00:16:52,320
telling us that they have had

424
00:16:55,610 --> 00:16:54,300
experiences and we need to listen to

425
00:16:58,610 --> 00:16:55,620
that

426
00:17:00,470 --> 00:16:58,620
yeah and I think uh

427
00:17:01,610 --> 00:17:00,480
while I do think you know there's some

428
00:17:02,509 --> 00:17:01,620
really exciting things are happening

429
00:17:04,429 --> 00:17:02,519
with

430
00:17:06,110 --> 00:17:04,439
for instance setting up you know

431
00:17:08,030 --> 00:17:06,120
testimony from whistleblowers and things

432
00:17:10,130 --> 00:17:08,040
like that to do with you know black

433
00:17:12,110 --> 00:17:10,140
budget uh

434
00:17:14,449 --> 00:17:12,120
Legacy UFO programs and that kind of

435
00:17:16,189 --> 00:17:14,459
thing crash retrievals and reverse

436
00:17:18,350 --> 00:17:16,199
engineering programs and all that which

437
00:17:19,490 --> 00:17:18,360
we know exists

438
00:17:22,189 --> 00:17:19,500
um

439
00:17:24,890 --> 00:17:22,199
while all that is exciting I think that

440
00:17:27,289 --> 00:17:24,900
a lot of this will happen

441
00:17:30,830 --> 00:17:27,299
from an upswell from sort of a

442
00:17:33,110 --> 00:17:30,840
Grassroots kind of kind of movement and

443
00:17:34,909 --> 00:17:33,120
again one thing regardless of what the

444
00:17:36,830 --> 00:17:34,919
government does or doesn't do

445
00:17:38,510 --> 00:17:36,840
and we say that we're government in

446
00:17:39,950 --> 00:17:38,520
quotes because as we've said many times

447
00:17:42,529 --> 00:17:39,960
it's a complex assortment of different

448
00:17:44,270 --> 00:17:42,539
organizations made up of you know people

449
00:17:45,650 --> 00:17:44,280
that are your neighbors

450
00:17:47,289 --> 00:17:45,660
um from across the board in terms of

451
00:17:50,270 --> 00:17:47,299
World Views and whatnot

452
00:17:52,310 --> 00:17:50,280
but I mean one thing that does seem

453
00:17:53,750 --> 00:17:52,320
clear and again I remember there's a

454
00:17:55,310 --> 00:17:53,760
recent article

455
00:17:57,169 --> 00:17:55,320
um in Liberation times that talked about

456
00:18:00,830 --> 00:17:57,179
this you know like the

457
00:18:04,130 --> 00:18:00,840
the sense that this is um exponentially

458
00:18:06,169 --> 00:18:04,140
increasing right the the interaction of

459
00:18:08,510 --> 00:18:06,179
the phenomenon or elements of the

460
00:18:10,310 --> 00:18:08,520
Phenomenon with us right and and

461
00:18:13,010 --> 00:18:10,320
interacting with military groups and

462
00:18:15,310 --> 00:18:13,020
also just with people in general

463
00:18:17,570 --> 00:18:15,320
um seems to be really scaling up so

464
00:18:19,669 --> 00:18:17,580
regardless of what government decides

465
00:18:21,230 --> 00:18:19,679
it's going to do or not

466
00:18:24,950 --> 00:18:21,240
um you know in many ways it's hand may

467
00:18:27,529 --> 00:18:24,960
be forced because this is going to be an

468
00:18:29,930 --> 00:18:27,539
upswell in people's experiences and also

469
00:18:32,510 --> 00:18:29,940
just this this other

470
00:18:35,390 --> 00:18:32,520
you know this otherness right this other

471
00:18:37,730 --> 00:18:35,400
intelligence uh at least some elements

472
00:18:40,430 --> 00:18:37,740
of it really ramping up in our in our

473
00:18:41,930 --> 00:18:40,440
experience as a collective society and

474
00:18:43,970 --> 00:18:41,940
that alone might might change the

475
00:18:47,090 --> 00:18:43,980
perspective or the picture dramatically

476
00:18:48,230 --> 00:18:47,100
over the next six months to a year

477
00:18:50,090 --> 00:18:48,240
yeah I'm looking forward to that

478
00:18:52,669 --> 00:18:50,100
hopefully that does happen

479
00:18:55,549 --> 00:18:52,679
um well let's uh get kind of into the

480
00:18:57,230 --> 00:18:55,559
details then here so uh in in looking

481
00:19:00,230 --> 00:18:57,240
back and looking at where you are now

482
00:19:03,289 --> 00:19:00,240
you know what is something that

483
00:19:06,590 --> 00:19:03,299
you now believe about the phenomena

484
00:19:08,210 --> 00:19:06,600
uh something that feels you know quite

485
00:19:10,730 --> 00:19:08,220
solid to you

486
00:19:13,370 --> 00:19:10,740
um but may not have been on your radar

487
00:19:15,470 --> 00:19:13,380
before or have been very solid to you at

488
00:19:19,130 --> 00:19:15,480
all what's something that that you know

489
00:19:22,010 --> 00:19:19,140
really stands top of mind now for you

490
00:19:23,870 --> 00:19:22,020
yeah when we when we talked about you

491
00:19:25,730 --> 00:19:23,880
know what we might discuss this this

492
00:19:28,190 --> 00:19:25,740
time on the podcast

493
00:19:30,289 --> 00:19:28,200
once we come up with that question

494
00:19:32,690 --> 00:19:30,299
and I thought about it it's like wow

495
00:19:33,770 --> 00:19:32,700
there's there's a lot of things now that

496
00:19:35,510 --> 00:19:33,780
seem

497
00:19:39,350 --> 00:19:35,520
you know very

498
00:19:40,789 --> 00:19:39,360
data driven as being historical

499
00:19:42,830 --> 00:19:40,799
actually haven't happened having

500
00:19:44,690 --> 00:19:42,840
happened that I would not have thought

501
00:19:46,909 --> 00:19:44,700
was the case before

502
00:19:48,950 --> 00:19:46,919
um and I started listing them in my head

503
00:19:50,450 --> 00:19:48,960
and there was quite a few the first one

504
00:19:52,850 --> 00:19:50,460
I would say

505
00:19:55,010 --> 00:19:52,860
that surprising is is how much of our

506
00:19:58,250 --> 00:19:55,020
20th century narrative that we were

507
00:20:00,529 --> 00:19:58,260
brought up with is is incorrect you know

508
00:20:02,630 --> 00:20:00,539
and not just like you know

509
00:20:06,130 --> 00:20:02,640
missing a point here or there but

510
00:20:08,990 --> 00:20:06,140
significantly Incorrect and deliberately

511
00:20:11,930 --> 00:20:09,000
misrepresented what really happened

512
00:20:14,690 --> 00:20:11,940
um I think that

513
00:20:16,730 --> 00:20:14,700
so much of this comes down to people

514
00:20:18,110 --> 00:20:16,740
have a certain threshold of what they're

515
00:20:21,529 --> 00:20:18,120
willing to believe could have happened

516
00:20:23,210 --> 00:20:21,539
or can happen and sometimes they're not

517
00:20:27,110 --> 00:20:23,220
self-aware about where that threshold is

518
00:20:30,350 --> 00:20:27,120
and so they just ignore certain data

519
00:20:32,630 --> 00:20:30,360
um when it pushes past that threshold

520
00:20:34,430 --> 00:20:32,640
and I think sometimes only what will

521
00:20:37,010 --> 00:20:34,440
persuade you to reconsider that

522
00:20:39,289 --> 00:20:37,020
threshold is just the sheer volume of

523
00:20:41,570 --> 00:20:39,299
data that begins to show up that makes

524
00:20:43,070 --> 00:20:41,580
you go okay I have no choice but to look

525
00:20:45,830 --> 00:20:43,080
at this squarely in the eyes because

526
00:20:48,110 --> 00:20:45,840
this data keeps showing up and so one

527
00:20:50,210 --> 00:20:48,120
for me is around

528
00:20:52,370 --> 00:20:50,220
certain alien groups actually

529
00:20:55,190 --> 00:20:52,380
approaching like American

530
00:20:56,750 --> 00:20:55,200
administrations in the past and and

531
00:20:58,850 --> 00:20:56,760
trying to like the Eisenhower

532
00:21:00,650 --> 00:20:58,860
Administration for instance and trying

533
00:21:03,350 --> 00:21:00,660
to negotiate

534
00:21:05,870 --> 00:21:03,360
um you know exchange of technology and

535
00:21:09,470 --> 00:21:05,880
maybe perhaps even moving towards free

536
00:21:13,010 --> 00:21:09,480
energy uh kind of Platforms in exchange

537
00:21:15,650 --> 00:21:13,020
for you know disarmament and um concerns

538
00:21:18,970 --> 00:21:15,660
that the these various groups had around

539
00:21:22,310 --> 00:21:18,980
Atomic weapons that we were developing

540
00:21:24,049 --> 00:21:22,320
you know two years ago even that would

541
00:21:25,250 --> 00:21:24,059
have sounded pretty outlandish to me I

542
00:21:26,750 --> 00:21:25,260
just thought there would be no way that

543
00:21:28,490 --> 00:21:26,760
that could have been historical that

544
00:21:30,529 --> 00:21:28,500
that actually would have happened and it

545
00:21:32,690 --> 00:21:30,539
would have stayed under wraps

546
00:21:35,210 --> 00:21:32,700
I think even people that have a problem

547
00:21:37,490 --> 00:21:35,220
with the notion of like Legacy reverse

548
00:21:39,529 --> 00:21:37,500
engineering programs same idea right

549
00:21:41,930 --> 00:21:39,539
they just think that's too big a secret

550
00:21:44,630 --> 00:21:41,940
to keep for this long it just it can't

551
00:21:47,090 --> 00:21:44,640
be true right and and that's that's a

552
00:21:48,590 --> 00:21:47,100
compelling point you know that generally

553
00:21:50,090 --> 00:21:48,600
the bigger the secret and the more

554
00:21:51,409 --> 00:21:50,100
people that know it the harder it is to

555
00:21:54,590 --> 00:21:51,419
keep it for very long right because

556
00:21:58,190 --> 00:21:54,600
eventually people want to come clean

557
00:21:59,750 --> 00:21:58,200
but you know to that point a lot of the

558
00:22:01,370 --> 00:21:59,760
information we have are kind of like

559
00:22:03,350 --> 00:22:01,380
your standard deathbed confessions

560
00:22:04,730 --> 00:22:03,360
people who are coming clean they have

561
00:22:07,250 --> 00:22:04,740
nothing to gain at this point right

562
00:22:08,810 --> 00:22:07,260
they're they're on their last breath but

563
00:22:10,490 --> 00:22:08,820
they know the government can no longer

564
00:22:13,010 --> 00:22:10,500
threaten them

565
00:22:15,470 --> 00:22:13,020
uh so they they come clean so a lot of

566
00:22:17,510 --> 00:22:15,480
that that came out of even the uh you

567
00:22:19,610 --> 00:22:17,520
know the disclosure project with Steve

568
00:22:21,350 --> 00:22:19,620
Stephen Greer and things some great

569
00:22:22,970 --> 00:22:21,360
testimony there that I think is very

570
00:22:25,610 --> 00:22:22,980
compelling I think a lot of people

571
00:22:27,230 --> 00:22:25,620
ignore it because it's associated with

572
00:22:30,409 --> 00:22:27,240
Stephen Greer who's you know kind of

573
00:22:32,570 --> 00:22:30,419
become a a bit of a tangled mess for

574
00:22:33,710 --> 00:22:32,580
some people but I think people need to

575
00:22:36,710 --> 00:22:33,720
be

576
00:22:38,090 --> 00:22:36,720
open to seeing what those Witnesses are

577
00:22:38,450 --> 00:22:38,100
saying right

578
00:22:39,289 --> 00:22:38,460
[Music]

579
00:22:41,930 --> 00:22:39,299
um

580
00:22:45,730 --> 00:22:41,940
but yeah for me that was one of them was

581
00:22:50,210 --> 00:22:48,110
non-human intelligences actually

582
00:22:52,610 --> 00:22:50,220
contacted governments and tried to

583
00:22:54,950 --> 00:22:52,620
broker these kind of arrangements for

584
00:22:56,690 --> 00:22:54,960
the benefit of humanity and then maybe

585
00:22:58,190 --> 00:22:56,700
not surprising the one part that's not

586
00:23:00,649 --> 00:22:58,200
so surprising is that actually for

587
00:23:03,590 --> 00:23:00,659
various reasons those overtures were

588
00:23:05,510 --> 00:23:03,600
turned down declined because there was

589
00:23:07,490 --> 00:23:05,520
concerns about well what if the Soviets

590
00:23:09,470 --> 00:23:07,500
don't you know match Us in terms of

591
00:23:11,210 --> 00:23:09,480
disarmament so

592
00:23:13,010 --> 00:23:11,220
as as

593
00:23:14,630 --> 00:23:13,020
outlandish as that would have sounded to

594
00:23:16,070 --> 00:23:14,640
me two years ago I think there's strong

595
00:23:18,049 --> 00:23:16,080
evidence historically that actually

596
00:23:19,970 --> 00:23:18,059
happened what do you think about that

597
00:23:21,590 --> 00:23:19,980
particular point and what comes up for

598
00:23:23,810 --> 00:23:21,600
you in terms of stuff you believe now

599
00:23:25,690 --> 00:23:23,820
that you wouldn't have before

600
00:23:29,510 --> 00:23:25,700
yeah well I mean on that one

601
00:23:33,289 --> 00:23:29,520
specifically uh I'm I've always been

602
00:23:34,789 --> 00:23:33,299
intrigued by those accounts I uh I know

603
00:23:37,490 --> 00:23:34,799
you've studied that you know very

604
00:23:39,409 --> 00:23:37,500
closely and you know after having many

605
00:23:41,690 --> 00:23:39,419
conversations with you about it I I

606
00:23:44,450 --> 00:23:41,700
share your conviction that there there

607
00:23:45,470 --> 00:23:44,460
is more there there than not

608
00:23:47,570 --> 00:23:45,480
um

609
00:23:49,789 --> 00:23:47,580
you know and and I think more broadly

610
00:23:52,130 --> 00:23:49,799
you know we've talked about this in a

611
00:23:55,010 --> 00:23:52,140
great deal not only is our story about

612
00:23:58,789 --> 00:23:55,020
the 20th century uh you know sort of

613
00:24:00,590 --> 00:23:58,799
inaccurate but uh our our human story is

614
00:24:04,070 --> 00:24:00,600
is fairly inaccurate there's a lot in

615
00:24:06,230 --> 00:24:04,080
our past that uh the more you look at it

616
00:24:08,690 --> 00:24:06,240
and you know we spend a decent chunk of

617
00:24:11,390 --> 00:24:08,700
Our Lives looking at historical uh

618
00:24:13,430 --> 00:24:11,400
beliefs and traditions

619
00:24:16,130 --> 00:24:13,440
um you know the more you go back and

620
00:24:18,770 --> 00:24:16,140
look at that material the more it really

621
00:24:22,250 --> 00:24:18,780
does kind of jump out at you uh that

622
00:24:24,470 --> 00:24:22,260
that this interaction has been happening

623
00:24:26,210 --> 00:24:24,480
for quite some time and and it's

624
00:24:28,909 --> 00:24:26,220
interesting because

625
00:24:31,010 --> 00:24:28,919
you know you would think that you and I

626
00:24:32,870 --> 00:24:31,020
people who have studied that would have

627
00:24:34,310 --> 00:24:32,880
caught on to those connections a lot

628
00:24:36,789 --> 00:24:34,320
faster

629
00:24:39,049 --> 00:24:36,799
um but in some ways I think it it it

630
00:24:42,770 --> 00:24:39,059
highlights the degree to which we have

631
00:24:45,049 --> 00:24:42,780
these uh biases and blinders on about

632
00:24:46,909 --> 00:24:45,059
those belief systems you know we we

633
00:24:50,350 --> 00:24:46,919
think of them as

634
00:24:52,970 --> 00:24:50,360
uh these you know locked in place

635
00:24:55,610 --> 00:24:52,980
systems and ideas that that are kind of

636
00:24:57,830 --> 00:24:55,620
just part of the fabric of reality the

637
00:25:01,070 --> 00:24:57,840
error in which we breathe even if we're

638
00:25:03,169 --> 00:25:01,080
not born into those Traditions uh and

639
00:25:04,789 --> 00:25:03,179
haven't been you know church goers or

640
00:25:07,730 --> 00:25:04,799
going to synagogue or what have you

641
00:25:09,649 --> 00:25:07,740
we're in America where you know we spend

642
00:25:11,810 --> 00:25:09,659
most of our time it's just kind of part

643
00:25:15,409 --> 00:25:11,820
of the culture and and these things

644
00:25:17,590 --> 00:25:15,419
aren't really challenged they are taken

645
00:25:21,950 --> 00:25:17,600
as Givens in many ways

646
00:25:24,409 --> 00:25:21,960
but the more that at least for me more

647
00:25:27,049 --> 00:25:24,419
time I have spent outside of those

648
00:25:31,610 --> 00:25:27,059
institutions the clearer that picture

649
00:25:34,909 --> 00:25:31,620
has become so it is easier now for me to

650
00:25:37,669 --> 00:25:34,919
look back at the texts of my childhood

651
00:25:40,430 --> 00:25:37,679
and go yeah I mean that's I could

652
00:25:44,210 --> 00:25:40,440
overlay this right on to experiencer

653
00:25:46,250 --> 00:25:44,220
accounts uh abduction accounts non-human

654
00:25:48,649 --> 00:25:46,260
entity engagements and all these things

655
00:25:50,810 --> 00:25:48,659
and I mean it's just right there staring

656
00:25:53,630 --> 00:25:50,820
staring me in the face

657
00:25:55,490 --> 00:25:53,640
um so you know for me I I just want to

658
00:25:57,409 --> 00:25:55,500
Echo what you're saying and and take it

659
00:25:59,029 --> 00:25:57,419
even further and I I know you were

660
00:26:00,289 --> 00:25:59,039
probably gonna jump in with it with the

661
00:26:02,570 --> 00:26:00,299
same perspective but what do you think

662
00:26:05,149 --> 00:26:02,580
think about that as well

663
00:26:08,269 --> 00:26:05,159
yeah I mean that

664
00:26:10,669 --> 00:26:08,279
this this this topic leaves no subject

665
00:26:13,190 --> 00:26:10,679
unscathed I would say you know it's it's

666
00:26:15,230 --> 00:26:13,200
it's remarkable how

667
00:26:17,510 --> 00:26:15,240
someone can you know read an article in

668
00:26:18,830 --> 00:26:17,520
the New York Times in 2017 and go ah

669
00:26:21,470 --> 00:26:18,840
maybe there's something to this idea of

670
00:26:23,690 --> 00:26:21,480
like you know nuts and bolts advanced

671
00:26:25,490 --> 00:26:23,700
technology you know being flown here

672
00:26:27,350 --> 00:26:25,500
from Alpha Centauri through a wormhole

673
00:26:28,850 --> 00:26:27,360
or something that sounds exciting and

674
00:26:31,490 --> 00:26:28,860
next thing you know you follow that

675
00:26:34,490 --> 00:26:31,500
rabbit hole until

676
00:26:36,649 --> 00:26:34,500
human history and the nature of reality

677
00:26:39,169 --> 00:26:36,659
has been undone I mean that's that's

678
00:26:40,909 --> 00:26:39,179
where you end up and it's remarkable

679
00:26:43,370 --> 00:26:40,919
when you think about that and it can all

680
00:26:44,630 --> 00:26:43,380
happen in a fairly short amount of time

681
00:26:47,029 --> 00:26:44,640
too

682
00:26:48,470 --> 00:26:47,039
um but yeah I first wanted to point out

683
00:26:49,610 --> 00:26:48,480
or you know highlight what you said

684
00:26:51,830 --> 00:26:49,620
about

685
00:26:54,350 --> 00:26:51,840
um even when you're in circles that are

686
00:26:56,149 --> 00:26:54,360
studying these things you can be

687
00:26:59,690 --> 00:26:56,159
brainwashed into a certain perspective

688
00:27:02,450 --> 00:26:59,700
you can inherit certain assumptions that

689
00:27:05,330 --> 00:27:02,460
are so like just part of the milieu that

690
00:27:06,110 --> 00:27:05,340
you don't even recognize you're doing it

691
00:27:08,390 --> 00:27:06,120
um

692
00:27:11,570 --> 00:27:08,400
and and

693
00:27:13,250 --> 00:27:11,580
so for instance for us in our religious

694
00:27:16,130 --> 00:27:13,260
history Traditions that we learned

695
00:27:19,909 --> 00:27:17,930
it's amazing to me now like you say when

696
00:27:22,070 --> 00:27:19,919
I look back there's there's stuff that

697
00:27:23,990 --> 00:27:22,080
seems to be staring Us in the face and

698
00:27:26,810 --> 00:27:24,000
yet we didn't see it because we weren't

699
00:27:28,310 --> 00:27:26,820
being told to keep an eye out for it and

700
00:27:30,769 --> 00:27:28,320
we were inheriting this these certain

701
00:27:32,510 --> 00:27:30,779
options like it's a or b some people say

702
00:27:34,430 --> 00:27:32,520
C but those are the three options kind

703
00:27:36,950 --> 00:27:34,440
of thing and so you never think about d

704
00:27:38,690 --> 00:27:36,960
right uh you assume that

705
00:27:40,190 --> 00:27:38,700
just like we do with our parents when

706
00:27:41,269 --> 00:27:40,200
we're being brought up you know that

707
00:27:44,390 --> 00:27:41,279
they know what they're talking about

708
00:27:46,330 --> 00:27:44,400
right that we assume that we are

709
00:27:49,010 --> 00:27:46,340
standing on the shoulders of giants

710
00:27:50,690 --> 00:27:49,020
who've studied this these things for

711
00:27:52,610 --> 00:27:50,700
hundreds of years if not thousands in

712
00:27:53,990 --> 00:27:52,620
the case of religious history and they

713
00:27:55,490 --> 00:27:54,000
know what they're talking about and who

714
00:27:57,769 --> 00:27:55,500
are we to question it so we're more

715
00:28:00,470 --> 00:27:57,779
there to inherit a tradition in some

716
00:28:02,810 --> 00:28:00,480
ways right inherit a perspective

717
00:28:06,409 --> 00:28:02,820
um and inherit a kind of Specialists

718
00:28:09,409 --> 00:28:06,419
kind of uh interpretation of things

719
00:28:11,269 --> 00:28:09,419
so that that blows my mind when I think

720
00:28:14,269 --> 00:28:11,279
about it now and even how that happens

721
00:28:16,970 --> 00:28:14,279
in other uh Realms of Academia as well

722
00:28:19,430 --> 00:28:16,980
that um

723
00:28:22,370 --> 00:28:19,440
you know I've been on this a lot about

724
00:28:25,669 --> 00:28:22,380
this notion that physicalism is you know

725
00:28:27,549 --> 00:28:25,679
really an untenable kind of model and

726
00:28:29,930 --> 00:28:27,559
yet it's still

727
00:28:31,490 --> 00:28:29,940
widespread in Academia and it's that's

728
00:28:33,350 --> 00:28:31,500
not going to change anytime soon I mean

729
00:28:35,210 --> 00:28:33,360
cracks are being beginning to show but

730
00:28:37,970 --> 00:28:35,220
it takes a long time for the very

731
00:28:40,850 --> 00:28:37,980
reasons we're talking about that

732
00:28:43,850 --> 00:28:40,860
it's not so much like fresh inquiry as

733
00:28:46,250 --> 00:28:43,860
it is an inheritance of perspectives and

734
00:28:50,029 --> 00:28:46,260
traditional viewpoints even when it

735
00:28:52,850 --> 00:28:50,039
comes to something like science right so

736
00:28:55,490 --> 00:28:52,860
that that is quite shocking but but yeah

737
00:28:57,230 --> 00:28:55,500
on the piece about human history

738
00:29:02,330 --> 00:28:57,240
I think

739
00:29:04,010 --> 00:29:02,340
how much that that has shifted you know

740
00:29:06,110 --> 00:29:04,020
before we went on tonight

741
00:29:08,510 --> 00:29:06,120
you and I were talking about this and I

742
00:29:10,010 --> 00:29:08,520
was saying how when I was studying

743
00:29:12,710 --> 00:29:10,020
religious studies you know I actually

744
00:29:14,269 --> 00:29:12,720
got to learn Hebrew and read you know

745
00:29:15,350 --> 00:29:14,279
the Old Testament actually in Hebrew

746
00:29:17,750 --> 00:29:15,360
which is

747
00:29:20,169 --> 00:29:17,760
amazing I still remember uh on the first

748
00:29:23,870 --> 00:29:20,179
day of class of my first year in Hebrew

749
00:29:25,730 --> 00:29:23,880
uh had this Prof who showed us you know

750
00:29:28,070 --> 00:29:25,740
the pentateuch and we actually got to

751
00:29:31,789 --> 00:29:28,080
look at it and it looks so alien like

752
00:29:34,430 --> 00:29:31,799
for those who haven't seen Hebrew uh the

753
00:29:37,010 --> 00:29:34,440
the characters look nothing like English

754
00:29:38,630 --> 00:29:37,020
or any kind of Latin based language and

755
00:29:42,169 --> 00:29:38,640
you actually read it backwards as well

756
00:29:44,590 --> 00:29:42,179
and um you know things like vowels are

757
00:29:47,330 --> 00:29:44,600
like uh

758
00:29:49,130 --> 00:29:47,340
they're designed around the the

759
00:29:50,630 --> 00:29:49,140
consonants so you actually have these

760
00:29:52,730 --> 00:29:50,640
these dots and things that actually tell

761
00:29:55,430 --> 00:29:52,740
you things about where the vowels are so

762
00:29:57,769 --> 00:29:55,440
it's a completely alien experience in

763
00:30:00,110 --> 00:29:57,779
terms of reading language right

764
00:30:02,810 --> 00:30:00,120
um but

765
00:30:05,149 --> 00:30:02,820
what amazes me now is I I look back at

766
00:30:08,330 --> 00:30:05,159
some of those like reading those terms

767
00:30:10,669 --> 00:30:08,340
in Hebrew as opposed to how or you know

768
00:30:13,610 --> 00:30:10,679
um later translated into English often

769
00:30:14,870 --> 00:30:13,620
several times over right and how

770
00:30:18,649 --> 00:30:14,880
um you know we were talking about like

771
00:30:20,690 --> 00:30:18,659
the term Elohim which is a a plural term

772
00:30:23,090 --> 00:30:20,700
and often in English Bibles that's

773
00:30:24,529 --> 00:30:23,100
that's just like lumped into God so

774
00:30:26,810 --> 00:30:24,539
there's these These Times where there's

775
00:30:28,730 --> 00:30:26,820
these different terms used that we just

776
00:30:30,950 --> 00:30:28,740
say ah we'll just say God

777
00:30:32,750 --> 00:30:30,960
that works and what people don't realize

778
00:30:35,510 --> 00:30:32,760
is that that's sort of like forcing

779
00:30:37,669 --> 00:30:35,520
something onto the text to fit with a

780
00:30:40,430 --> 00:30:37,679
certain theological perspective that's

781
00:30:41,990 --> 00:30:40,440
really not there in the text itself and

782
00:30:44,269 --> 00:30:42,000
in many ways you could say it's like a

783
00:30:47,870 --> 00:30:44,279
bastardization of the actual text like

784
00:30:50,389 --> 00:30:47,880
it's just it's it's not being loyal to

785
00:30:52,909 --> 00:30:50,399
the original meaning at all and then

786
00:30:56,090 --> 00:30:52,919
when you take into account that

787
00:30:57,409 --> 00:30:56,100
you know the the the Old Testament

788
00:31:00,289 --> 00:30:57,419
tradition

789
00:31:02,210 --> 00:31:00,299
you know is actually based on so both

790
00:31:04,250 --> 00:31:02,220
for Judaism and what later became

791
00:31:07,190 --> 00:31:04,260
Christian tradition is actually based on

792
00:31:10,430 --> 00:31:07,200
much older stories uh narratives that

793
00:31:12,289 --> 00:31:10,440
come out of uh Babylonian Acadian and

794
00:31:15,289 --> 00:31:12,299
Sumerian texts

795
00:31:17,450 --> 00:31:15,299
which talk about these beings these

796
00:31:20,149 --> 00:31:17,460
groups of beings who come and interact

797
00:31:22,669 --> 00:31:20,159
with human beings

798
00:31:24,230 --> 00:31:22,679
suddenly instead of going and looking at

799
00:31:27,169 --> 00:31:24,240
this sort of like you know this notion

800
00:31:29,570 --> 00:31:27,179
of a spirit realm with God and angels or

801
00:31:30,710 --> 00:31:29,580
demons the ones that fell you look at it

802
00:31:32,930 --> 00:31:30,720
more like these sort of

803
00:31:34,010 --> 00:31:32,940
inter-dimensional beings that are

804
00:31:35,570 --> 00:31:34,020
somewhat maybe you could look at

805
00:31:37,730 --> 00:31:35,580
extraterrestrial somewhat

806
00:31:39,230 --> 00:31:37,740
interdimensional again I've said before

807
00:31:41,710 --> 00:31:39,240
I think those terms kind of collapse

808
00:31:44,389 --> 00:31:41,720
into something deeper than both of those

809
00:31:46,490 --> 00:31:44,399
uh transcends both of those

810
00:31:48,409 --> 00:31:46,500
but you could certainly look at it now

811
00:31:50,090 --> 00:31:48,419
and I kind of do look at it now and say

812
00:31:52,070 --> 00:31:50,100
this is kind of staring Us in the face

813
00:31:54,289 --> 00:31:52,080
that

814
00:31:55,850 --> 00:31:54,299
some of the same hybridization programs

815
00:32:00,230 --> 00:31:55,860
that people are

816
00:32:02,990 --> 00:32:00,240
uh unwittingly and uh not being desirous

817
00:32:04,850 --> 00:32:03,000
of but are being lumped into now

818
00:32:08,029 --> 00:32:04,860
that's actually happening to people that

819
00:32:09,889 --> 00:32:08,039
I know right I know people personally

820
00:32:13,250 --> 00:32:09,899
who've been subject to these

821
00:32:14,810 --> 00:32:13,260
hybridization programs sometimes they're

822
00:32:16,789 --> 00:32:14,820
for it and sometimes it's kind of

823
00:32:18,230 --> 00:32:16,799
against their will again because there's

824
00:32:20,149 --> 00:32:18,240
numerous groups here

825
00:32:21,649 --> 00:32:20,159
what's amazing to me now as I look at

826
00:32:24,230 --> 00:32:21,659
some of these ancient Traditions that we

827
00:32:25,789 --> 00:32:24,240
studied and never saw any of this now I

828
00:32:28,130 --> 00:32:25,799
look at it and I say it's staring me in

829
00:32:29,870 --> 00:32:28,140
the face that the same groups some of

830
00:32:32,570 --> 00:32:29,880
the same groups that that sort of

831
00:32:34,549 --> 00:32:32,580
authored human civilization likely and

832
00:32:37,010 --> 00:32:34,559
were involved in hybridization programs

833
00:32:38,269 --> 00:32:37,020
even then that that same thing is

834
00:32:40,850 --> 00:32:38,279
happening today which of course

835
00:32:43,250 --> 00:32:40,860
completely changes the picture about

836
00:32:46,430 --> 00:32:43,260
virtually everything

837
00:32:47,350 --> 00:32:46,440
absolutely yeah you know this I this

838
00:32:49,610 --> 00:32:47,360
Insight

839
00:32:50,750 --> 00:32:49,620
just to kind of dwell on a little bit

840
00:32:53,870 --> 00:32:50,760
longer

841
00:32:56,930 --> 00:32:53,880
to me is very helpful because there are

842
00:32:59,450 --> 00:32:56,940
so many uh folks in our in our circles

843
00:33:02,029 --> 00:32:59,460
that I don't mean our UFO circles but

844
00:33:05,269 --> 00:33:02,039
our day-to-day lives who come from these

845
00:33:08,750 --> 00:33:05,279
traditions and still observe these uh

846
00:33:10,010 --> 00:33:08,760
belief systems and you know if you're if

847
00:33:12,049 --> 00:33:10,020
you're thinking about having a

848
00:33:13,009 --> 00:33:12,059
conversation about your interest in the

849
00:33:15,230 --> 00:33:13,019
phenomena

850
00:33:17,149 --> 00:33:15,240
and you get some pushback from folks

851
00:33:18,110 --> 00:33:17,159
that are in those kinds of belief

852
00:33:20,930 --> 00:33:18,120
systems

853
00:33:23,029 --> 00:33:20,940
to me like I think you can you can begin

854
00:33:25,850 --> 00:33:23,039
bridging that divide by just

855
00:33:30,430 --> 00:33:25,860
highlighting a lot of the commonalities

856
00:33:34,669 --> 00:33:30,440
of belief in the two narratives you know

857
00:33:37,190 --> 00:33:34,679
we we uh in in Christian belief we

858
00:33:40,549 --> 00:33:37,200
certainly have a lot of uh text about

859
00:33:43,549 --> 00:33:40,559
engaging with non-human intelligences uh

860
00:33:46,310 --> 00:33:43,559
we have uh you know prayer as a type of

861
00:33:48,950 --> 00:33:46,320
modality it's that you could like in

862
00:33:50,750 --> 00:33:48,960
pretty similarly in some respects to C5

863
00:33:51,549 --> 00:33:50,760
or Heist

864
00:33:54,110 --> 00:33:51,559
um

865
00:33:56,029 --> 00:33:54,120
you know Miracles I mean the list kind

866
00:34:00,350 --> 00:33:56,039
of goes on and on there are plenty of

867
00:34:02,029 --> 00:34:00,360
touch points here that to The Devout uh

868
00:34:03,830 --> 00:34:02,039
they just seem like yeah like that

869
00:34:05,330 --> 00:34:03,840
that's just I believe that that's you

870
00:34:07,610 --> 00:34:05,340
know but when they when they listen to

871
00:34:09,530 --> 00:34:07,620
things about UFOs they go oh that that's

872
00:34:12,109 --> 00:34:09,540
just you know that's some sort of

873
00:34:14,210 --> 00:34:12,119
strange sci-fi perspective you know that

874
00:34:16,730 --> 00:34:14,220
that they have this overlay onto that

875
00:34:18,710 --> 00:34:16,740
where it uh it seems so foreign and

876
00:34:22,250 --> 00:34:18,720
quite frankly I even remember growing up

877
00:34:24,290 --> 00:34:22,260
where my uh parents would make you know

878
00:34:27,109 --> 00:34:24,300
similarly kind of uh

879
00:34:29,750 --> 00:34:27,119
you know mildly derogatory comments

880
00:34:34,430 --> 00:34:29,760
about other belief systems like

881
00:34:36,889 --> 00:34:34,440
Scientology for example uh or uh you

882
00:34:39,649 --> 00:34:36,899
know Mormonism you know the these were

883
00:34:42,470 --> 00:34:39,659
more recent uh religious Traditions that

884
00:34:45,050 --> 00:34:42,480
certainly didn't have the kind of solid

885
00:34:48,530 --> 00:34:45,060
foundations that Christianity did and

886
00:34:52,190 --> 00:34:48,540
therefore weren't as uh valid uh you

887
00:34:53,869 --> 00:34:52,200
know of belief so you know to me like if

888
00:34:55,970 --> 00:34:53,879
you've had enough distance time

889
00:34:58,310 --> 00:34:55,980
perspective you can really kind of see

890
00:35:00,829 --> 00:34:58,320
all of this from the same lens and that

891
00:35:03,589 --> 00:35:00,839
in and of itself is powerful that

892
00:35:06,230 --> 00:35:03,599
unlocks something of a deeper meaning

893
00:35:08,750 --> 00:35:06,240
and truth about what's really been going

894
00:35:11,210 --> 00:35:08,760
on in in the human story

895
00:35:13,010 --> 00:35:11,220
and uh to me as you said earlier like

896
00:35:14,870 --> 00:35:13,020
that's why this this subject is so

897
00:35:17,450 --> 00:35:14,880
compelling it really is about the whole

898
00:35:20,990 --> 00:35:17,460
uh enchilada here

899
00:35:21,589 --> 00:35:21,000
it is the proverbial enchilada certainly

900
00:35:24,290 --> 00:35:21,599
um

901
00:35:26,329 --> 00:35:24,300
yeah I mean it's just to highlight an

902
00:35:28,790 --> 00:35:26,339
example so for instance when we were

903
00:35:30,290 --> 00:35:28,800
studying this academically you take an

904
00:35:33,829 --> 00:35:30,300
event like The Parting of the Red Sea

905
00:35:35,390 --> 00:35:33,839
right and and you'll get some people who

906
00:35:37,490 --> 00:35:35,400
and you and this is a good point you're

907
00:35:39,650 --> 00:35:37,500
making here that

908
00:35:41,510 --> 00:35:39,660
you'll get some you know religious

909
00:35:43,130 --> 00:35:41,520
believers who have no problem believing

910
00:35:45,410 --> 00:35:43,140
that

911
00:35:48,829 --> 00:35:45,420
this interdimensional being known as God

912
00:35:50,390 --> 00:35:48,839
or Yahweh or whatever you want to say uh

913
00:35:54,109 --> 00:35:50,400
yes absolutely

914
00:35:55,790 --> 00:35:54,119
he you know using that pronoun can can

915
00:35:58,130 --> 00:35:55,800
part these Waters right no problem there

916
00:35:59,450 --> 00:35:58,140
because that's a spiritual power right

917
00:36:01,310 --> 00:35:59,460
um

918
00:36:03,230 --> 00:36:01,320
but they would not believe that ETS

919
00:36:05,329 --> 00:36:03,240
could do that right they don't consider

920
00:36:08,569 --> 00:36:05,339
the the possibility that it could be

921
00:36:11,630 --> 00:36:08,579
technology that could do this right

922
00:36:14,390 --> 00:36:11,640
um we now talk about terraforming Mars

923
00:36:16,670 --> 00:36:14,400
right with technology in the future uh

924
00:36:19,430 --> 00:36:16,680
again the the point I make to people is

925
00:36:23,329 --> 00:36:19,440
that based on the the age of the

926
00:36:24,890 --> 00:36:23,339
universe there are some galaxies that

927
00:36:27,530 --> 00:36:24,900
would have formed solar systems and

928
00:36:29,210 --> 00:36:27,540
planets much sooner than others so you

929
00:36:32,450 --> 00:36:29,220
could have civilizations that are

930
00:36:34,970 --> 00:36:32,460
literally like Millions even billions of

931
00:36:37,010 --> 00:36:34,980
years older than

932
00:36:38,750 --> 00:36:37,020
the time period where human beings kind

933
00:36:40,910 --> 00:36:38,760
of came on the scene kind of thing and

934
00:36:43,310 --> 00:36:40,920
try to imagine where you would get to

935
00:36:45,550 --> 00:36:43,320
and your manipulation of reality even

936
00:36:47,750 --> 00:36:45,560
what you see reality is being you know

937
00:36:50,150 --> 00:36:47,760
comprised of how much that would change

938
00:36:52,450 --> 00:36:50,160
with that additional time again I always

939
00:36:54,349 --> 00:36:52,460
make this point think about how much our

940
00:36:56,150 --> 00:36:54,359
technological landscape and our

941
00:36:59,150 --> 00:36:56,160
understanding of reality has changed in

942
00:37:01,910 --> 00:36:59,160
100 years which is the shortest blink of

943
00:37:03,589 --> 00:37:01,920
an eye some of these civilizations might

944
00:37:06,170 --> 00:37:03,599
have been around for millions of years

945
00:37:09,050 --> 00:37:06,180
by the time you know they came across

946
00:37:11,109 --> 00:37:09,060
the planet Earth and decided to

947
00:37:15,170 --> 00:37:11,119
terraform the planet and perhaps even

948
00:37:18,530 --> 00:37:15,180
you know engineer a species

949
00:37:20,750 --> 00:37:18,540
so and so the other uh sort of line of

950
00:37:23,390 --> 00:37:20,760
thought that we're taught uh in academic

951
00:37:25,250 --> 00:37:23,400
circles religious academic circles is uh

952
00:37:28,069 --> 00:37:25,260
these are stories that are told to

953
00:37:29,930 --> 00:37:28,079
convey some sort of Truth not literal

954
00:37:33,589 --> 00:37:29,940
truth but sort of you know meaningful

955
00:37:36,290 --> 00:37:33,599
truth still right about Redemption and

956
00:37:38,270 --> 00:37:36,300
uh you know uh loving God that cares

957
00:37:39,890 --> 00:37:38,280
about uh people who are being persecuted

958
00:37:41,329 --> 00:37:39,900
that kind of thing but of course we're

959
00:37:43,849 --> 00:37:41,339
not meant to take it literally right

960
00:37:45,530 --> 00:37:43,859
that that was those poor people who had

961
00:37:47,569 --> 00:37:45,540
to make up creation stories and and

962
00:37:49,010 --> 00:37:47,579
intervention stories because they just

963
00:37:51,470 --> 00:37:49,020
didn't know any better they didn't have

964
00:37:54,170 --> 00:37:51,480
a scientific understanding we were never

965
00:37:55,910 --> 00:37:54,180
taught option three you know that uh

966
00:37:58,270 --> 00:37:55,920
consider you know technologically

967
00:38:00,950 --> 00:37:58,280
advanced uh extraterrestrial or

968
00:38:04,010 --> 00:38:00,960
interdimensional species coming and

969
00:38:06,349 --> 00:38:04,020
interacting with human beings so it just

970
00:38:08,810 --> 00:38:06,359
shows you how much again even in these

971
00:38:11,089 --> 00:38:08,820
these uh these domains that are supposed

972
00:38:13,849 --> 00:38:11,099
to be specialist domains right these are

973
00:38:16,910 --> 00:38:13,859
the experts uh how it's pitch and told

974
00:38:18,410 --> 00:38:16,920
into just a couple ideas and the rest is

975
00:38:21,349 --> 00:38:18,420
just ignored

976
00:38:24,050 --> 00:38:21,359
no yeah I'm glad we spent some time on

977
00:38:26,270 --> 00:38:24,060
that that was a good uh rabbit to chase

978
00:38:27,530 --> 00:38:26,280
well I guess before we leave that uh is

979
00:38:29,870 --> 00:38:27,540
there anything else that you wanted to

980
00:38:30,710 --> 00:38:29,880
touch on that uh feels a lot more solid

981
00:38:35,510 --> 00:38:30,720
than

982
00:38:37,910 --> 00:38:35,520
the last one I'll add because I probably

983
00:38:40,190 --> 00:38:37,920
could go on but one more I'll add is um

984
00:38:42,829 --> 00:38:40,200
something like uh the notion of

985
00:38:45,230 --> 00:38:42,839
channeling you know um

986
00:38:46,849 --> 00:38:45,240
I would say that what I experienced now

987
00:38:48,770 --> 00:38:46,859
that's probably as good a term as any

988
00:38:51,710 --> 00:38:48,780
other to describe what

989
00:38:54,050 --> 00:38:51,720
happens for me in terms of gaining

990
00:38:56,450 --> 00:38:54,060
information that seems to come outside

991
00:38:58,910 --> 00:38:56,460
but beyond the parameters of space-time

992
00:39:01,130 --> 00:38:58,920
as we understand it that seems to come

993
00:39:05,150 --> 00:39:01,140
from some other source

994
00:39:07,310 --> 00:39:05,160
um and I think one of the reasons why

995
00:39:09,050 --> 00:39:07,320
I would have scoffed at it in the past

996
00:39:11,030 --> 00:39:09,060
was because number one it hadn't

997
00:39:12,530 --> 00:39:11,040
happened to me yet which of course is

998
00:39:13,730 --> 00:39:12,540
usually the biggest Factor on whether or

999
00:39:14,990 --> 00:39:13,740
not people tend to believe these things

1000
00:39:17,150 --> 00:39:15,000
or not

1001
00:39:19,310 --> 00:39:17,160
um but also because you know when you

1002
00:39:21,349 --> 00:39:19,320
come from a traditionalist point of view

1003
00:39:23,630 --> 00:39:21,359
where you have like a spiritual kind of

1004
00:39:25,730 --> 00:39:23,640
world and then you have the the material

1005
00:39:27,710 --> 00:39:25,740
world right and and and never the two

1006
00:39:29,870 --> 00:39:27,720
shall meet kind of thing

1007
00:39:32,510 --> 00:39:29,880
um rather than now I look at it like

1008
00:39:35,870 --> 00:39:32,520
like my entire perspective on what

1009
00:39:37,690 --> 00:39:35,880
reality is has changed dramatically

1010
00:39:39,890 --> 00:39:37,700
partly through

1011
00:39:42,050 --> 00:39:39,900
just what I think is the most compelling

1012
00:39:43,690 --> 00:39:42,060
evidence coming out of Neuroscience and

1013
00:39:47,030 --> 00:39:43,700
physics and

1014
00:39:48,829 --> 00:39:47,040
evolutionary biology and various domains

1015
00:39:51,109 --> 00:39:48,839
different fields of inquiry but also

1016
00:39:53,450 --> 00:39:51,119
because of personal experience and now I

1017
00:39:54,829 --> 00:39:53,460
see again we don't get too much into

1018
00:39:58,730 --> 00:39:54,839
this because this is an entire episode

1019
00:40:00,829 --> 00:39:58,740
on its own but when this reality space

1020
00:40:02,890 --> 00:40:00,839
is more like a Dreamscape

1021
00:40:05,750 --> 00:40:02,900
a mind space

1022
00:40:09,050 --> 00:40:05,760
a field of mandation is what I often

1023
00:40:10,910 --> 00:40:09,060
call it then it's not at all difficult

1024
00:40:13,609 --> 00:40:10,920
to imagine that you have this kind of

1025
00:40:16,190 --> 00:40:13,619
porous interplay between this reality

1026
00:40:17,750 --> 00:40:16,200
and other realities and beings that live

1027
00:40:20,810 --> 00:40:17,760
in those other realities or some that

1028
00:40:22,370 --> 00:40:20,820
are sort of cross-domain beings you know

1029
00:40:23,690 --> 00:40:22,380
interdimensional if you want to call

1030
00:40:26,450 --> 00:40:23,700
them that

1031
00:40:28,730 --> 00:40:26,460
um that actually you can have a transfer

1032
00:40:30,650 --> 00:40:28,740
of information and just like what we

1033
00:40:31,910 --> 00:40:30,660
talked about where some some things are

1034
00:40:34,069 --> 00:40:31,920
staring you in the face and you just

1035
00:40:36,829 --> 00:40:34,079
don't see them I think in the same way

1036
00:40:40,010 --> 00:40:36,839
now I look at it Go and even Beyond me I

1037
00:40:41,210 --> 00:40:40,020
think channeling happens all the time I

1038
00:40:43,550 --> 00:40:41,220
think that you know we talked about this

1039
00:40:45,970 --> 00:40:43,560
in the last episode everything from

1040
00:40:48,710 --> 00:40:45,980
great artistic achievements to

1041
00:40:51,589 --> 00:40:48,720
technological innovation is often coming

1042
00:40:53,569 --> 00:40:51,599
in this way but when it arrives in our

1043
00:40:55,490 --> 00:40:53,579
minds we just don't think about that as

1044
00:40:58,430 --> 00:40:55,500
being a possibility in terms of the

1045
00:41:00,650 --> 00:40:58,440
origin of it but I think it's happening

1046
00:41:02,810 --> 00:41:00,660
all the time and and that's fascinating

1047
00:41:05,870 --> 00:41:02,820
too in terms of ways that our our

1048
00:41:09,770 --> 00:41:05,880
society our culture can being uh can be

1049
00:41:11,030 --> 00:41:09,780
being transformed uh from this these

1050
00:41:14,270 --> 00:41:11,040
external powers that we don't even

1051
00:41:17,329 --> 00:41:14,280
acknowledge exist and we talk about this

1052
00:41:18,349 --> 00:41:17,339
quite a lot that uh in in our artistic

1053
00:41:21,109 --> 00:41:18,359
circles

1054
00:41:22,970 --> 00:41:21,119
um uh you know even our religious

1055
00:41:25,910 --> 00:41:22,980
Traditions you know we're tapping into

1056
00:41:27,290 --> 00:41:25,920
this uh you know kind of Flow State or

1057
00:41:30,290 --> 00:41:27,300
we're

1058
00:41:34,190 --> 00:41:30,300
um you know seeking to be uh you know

1059
00:41:37,730 --> 00:41:34,200
Divine vessels right these uh Messengers

1060
00:41:39,470 --> 00:41:37,740
uh of the Divine will in the world that

1061
00:41:41,990 --> 00:41:39,480
we live in

1062
00:41:43,430 --> 00:41:42,000
um that's channeling I mean it is just

1063
00:41:46,970 --> 00:41:43,440
straight up

1064
00:41:49,490 --> 00:41:46,980
um and I think you know where I think

1065
00:41:51,589 --> 00:41:49,500
some people may uh push back on this a

1066
00:41:55,250 --> 00:41:51,599
little bit maybe we can unpack this just

1067
00:41:57,230 --> 00:41:55,260
just a tad here is um this notion that

1068
00:41:59,569 --> 00:41:57,240
uh well this you're kind of saying that

1069
00:42:01,730 --> 00:41:59,579
this isn't coming from the individual

1070
00:42:04,490 --> 00:42:01,740
like this isn't like this isn't

1071
00:42:07,310 --> 00:42:04,500
something that uh humans themselves are

1072
00:42:08,870 --> 00:42:07,320
capable of creating amazing art or music

1073
00:42:11,569 --> 00:42:08,880
whatever it's all coming from somewhere

1074
00:42:13,069 --> 00:42:11,579
else and I think our Point here is uh

1075
00:42:15,250 --> 00:42:13,079
that it's actually a lot more complex

1076
00:42:18,410 --> 00:42:15,260
than that you know we're not saying that

1077
00:42:20,750 --> 00:42:18,420
uh that we're kind of putting ourselves

1078
00:42:22,910 --> 00:42:20,760
on the shelf some over here and we're

1079
00:42:24,890 --> 00:42:22,920
just letting some other entity you know

1080
00:42:27,770 --> 00:42:24,900
Take the Wheel I'm just going to say

1081
00:42:30,650 --> 00:42:27,780
that Jesus Take the Wheel this came to

1082
00:42:33,230 --> 00:42:30,660
mind it's the common joke about it but

1083
00:42:36,710 --> 00:42:33,240
um you know that that the way in which

1084
00:42:39,890 --> 00:42:36,720
we think about reality uh this

1085
00:42:43,970 --> 00:42:39,900
multi-layered uh you know Consciousness

1086
00:42:46,670 --> 00:42:43,980
level uh are who we who we are is

1087
00:42:48,950 --> 00:42:46,680
intertwined with all of these other

1088
00:42:51,710 --> 00:42:48,960
entities that that are in the in the

1089
00:42:53,810 --> 00:42:51,720
same layer of experience in reality that

1090
00:42:56,510 --> 00:42:53,820
there's this a deep interplay in other

1091
00:43:00,470 --> 00:42:56,520
words that exists there sometimes we

1092
00:43:03,290 --> 00:43:00,480
just kind of have to turn down like one

1093
00:43:05,390 --> 00:43:03,300
volume knob of our experience to let the

1094
00:43:07,790 --> 00:43:05,400
other ones come come through but but

1095
00:43:10,190 --> 00:43:07,800
they're all coming from the same you

1096
00:43:12,170 --> 00:43:10,200
know sort of overall Channel or station

1097
00:43:13,430 --> 00:43:12,180
that you I think you can explain this a

1098
00:43:15,349 --> 00:43:13,440
little bit better than I can but that

1099
00:43:16,430 --> 00:43:15,359
that's the way I think think about this

1100
00:43:18,790 --> 00:43:16,440
and I just want to make sure we address

1101
00:43:21,470 --> 00:43:18,800
that so people don't think we're uh

1102
00:43:23,630 --> 00:43:21,480
downplaying you know human achievement

1103
00:43:25,910 --> 00:43:23,640
and that all human achievement is just

1104
00:43:29,150 --> 00:43:25,920
some sort of byproduct of letting

1105
00:43:31,309 --> 00:43:29,160
non-human entities uh take over

1106
00:43:32,809 --> 00:43:31,319
yeah it's a good point and I would say a

1107
00:43:35,990 --> 00:43:32,819
couple things before we move on to the

1108
00:43:38,569 --> 00:43:36,000
next topic number one yes I would say

1109
00:43:41,030 --> 00:43:38,579
that something I often say is probably

1110
00:43:44,089 --> 00:43:41,040
the most overlooked

1111
00:43:46,849 --> 00:43:44,099
factor in the UFO phenomenon and general

1112
00:43:49,790 --> 00:43:46,859
paranormality is the complexity of who

1113
00:43:51,770 --> 00:43:49,800
we are we focus so much on these others

1114
00:43:54,970 --> 00:43:51,780
that we don't consider how the

1115
00:43:57,170 --> 00:43:54,980
complexity of who we are and us being

1116
00:43:59,990 --> 00:43:57,180
interdimensional beings is part of the

1117
00:44:02,329 --> 00:44:00,000
process so yes indeed sometimes I think

1118
00:44:04,069 --> 00:44:02,339
that something can feel like it's coming

1119
00:44:06,349 --> 00:44:04,079
from an external source and it can

1120
00:44:08,870 --> 00:44:06,359
actually be your higher self I think

1121
00:44:10,370 --> 00:44:08,880
that there's there's truth to even and I

1122
00:44:12,589 --> 00:44:10,380
try not to overwhelm people with so many

1123
00:44:15,349 --> 00:44:12,599
different uh you know thoughts that are

1124
00:44:18,170 --> 00:44:15,359
just so out there but I think even you

1125
00:44:20,569 --> 00:44:18,180
know you can communicate through time

1126
00:44:23,030 --> 00:44:20,579
with yourself in some ways because time

1127
00:44:25,430 --> 00:44:23,040
is ultimately a projection it's not

1128
00:44:27,050 --> 00:44:25,440
fundamentally really there so there's

1129
00:44:28,790 --> 00:44:27,060
ways around it in other words it doesn't

1130
00:44:31,130 --> 00:44:28,800
have to be linear

1131
00:44:32,450 --> 00:44:31,140
um but you know just to get back to what

1132
00:44:35,150 --> 00:44:32,460
you're saying about the Flow State I

1133
00:44:37,870 --> 00:44:35,160
mean many artists and innovators will

1134
00:44:40,730 --> 00:44:37,880
admit that

1135
00:44:43,130 --> 00:44:40,740
they themselves had the experience of it

1136
00:44:45,050 --> 00:44:43,140
just coming to them almost like it came

1137
00:44:46,430 --> 00:44:45,060
from an external Source it's not so it's

1138
00:44:47,870 --> 00:44:46,440
not just like people on the outside are

1139
00:44:49,370 --> 00:44:47,880
saying ah I don't want to give this

1140
00:44:51,290 --> 00:44:49,380
person credit you know I think they got

1141
00:44:52,910 --> 00:44:51,300
it from somewhere else they are saying

1142
00:44:56,030 --> 00:44:52,920
this is their actually lived experience

1143
00:44:58,550 --> 00:44:56,040
is they feel like they're channeling it

1144
00:45:01,010 --> 00:44:58,560
um so yeah I think but yeah you make a

1145
00:45:02,690 --> 00:45:01,020
great point that it is complex and it's

1146
00:45:05,569 --> 00:45:02,700
not just about

1147
00:45:06,710 --> 00:45:05,579
Austin this finite body mind and then

1148
00:45:08,930 --> 00:45:06,720
these other beings in some other

1149
00:45:11,750 --> 00:45:08,940
dimension we too are intimate

1150
00:45:14,089 --> 00:45:11,760
dimensional and we exist in different

1151
00:45:16,609 --> 00:45:14,099
domains simultaneously I would even say

1152
00:45:19,430 --> 00:45:16,619
though it gets tricky talking about you

1153
00:45:22,130 --> 00:45:19,440
know terms and time but but nevertheless

1154
00:45:24,170 --> 00:45:22,140
information comes to us from outside of

1155
00:45:26,650 --> 00:45:24,180
our usual conception of the way these

1156
00:45:29,630 --> 00:45:26,660
things come about

1157
00:45:31,430 --> 00:45:29,640
well I think that's a good segue uh

1158
00:45:33,530 --> 00:45:31,440
since you you've touched on your own

1159
00:45:35,569 --> 00:45:33,540
personal experience with this

1160
00:45:39,190 --> 00:45:35,579
um you know how have your how is your

1161
00:45:41,690 --> 00:45:39,200
journey and and you know kind of the

1162
00:45:43,430 --> 00:45:41,700
Revelation Revelations and realizations

1163
00:45:45,349 --> 00:45:43,440
that you've had like how are those

1164
00:45:48,829 --> 00:45:45,359
things really changed you as a as a

1165
00:45:52,730 --> 00:45:50,510
yeah we were talking about this before

1166
00:45:55,010 --> 00:45:52,740
we went on the air and

1167
00:46:01,910 --> 00:45:58,370
it's hard to uh put that into words in

1168
00:46:05,390 --> 00:46:03,829
because what happens is it's not just

1169
00:46:11,329 --> 00:46:05,400
about

1170
00:46:13,730 --> 00:46:11,339
recontextualizing your entire life right

1171
00:46:14,750 --> 00:46:13,740
that things happen that make you sort of

1172
00:46:16,970 --> 00:46:14,760
like you've seen those movies right

1173
00:46:18,710 --> 00:46:16,980
where they have this point where like I

1174
00:46:20,450 --> 00:46:18,720
think it was in what sixth sense right

1175
00:46:22,190 --> 00:46:20,460
where he realizes he's actually been

1176
00:46:23,569 --> 00:46:22,200
dead the whole time and they have this

1177
00:46:25,430 --> 00:46:23,579
flashback of all these events that have

1178
00:46:27,050 --> 00:46:25,440
been in the movie and you see it from

1179
00:46:28,550 --> 00:46:27,060
that other light now right everything

1180
00:46:32,150 --> 00:46:28,560
makes sense now that you have this

1181
00:46:33,770 --> 00:46:32,160
greater realization this greater context

1182
00:46:35,569 --> 00:46:33,780
it's a lot like that that's what the

1183
00:46:38,030 --> 00:46:35,579
experience has been for me is that this

1184
00:46:39,410 --> 00:46:38,040
this strange feeling of not only are

1185
00:46:41,809 --> 00:46:39,420
things

1186
00:46:44,990 --> 00:46:41,819
coming to me now realizations and

1187
00:46:47,930 --> 00:46:45,000
Revelations but those Revelations

1188
00:46:49,490 --> 00:46:47,940
help me reinterpret my entire life uh

1189
00:46:52,130 --> 00:46:49,500
and events that happened even when I was

1190
00:46:53,750 --> 00:46:52,140
a very young kid you know and um

1191
00:46:56,329 --> 00:46:53,760
I

1192
00:46:58,069 --> 00:46:56,339
talk sometimes now about how

1193
00:47:00,650 --> 00:46:58,079
I used to have this quote unquote

1194
00:47:02,089 --> 00:47:00,660
problem with daydreaming when I was a

1195
00:47:04,010 --> 00:47:02,099
kid I would go into these kind of Trance

1196
00:47:06,230 --> 00:47:04,020
States and one you know one point even

1197
00:47:07,130 --> 00:47:06,240
my parents wonder what was up with that

1198
00:47:08,630 --> 00:47:07,140
and

1199
00:47:10,010 --> 00:47:08,640
um you know there were times where

1200
00:47:11,329 --> 00:47:10,020
teachers were really concerned about it

1201
00:47:12,530 --> 00:47:11,339
and I could see how again from a

1202
00:47:14,870 --> 00:47:12,540
conventional point of view you're like

1203
00:47:17,630 --> 00:47:14,880
come on Darren dial in you know we're

1204
00:47:19,130 --> 00:47:17,640
learning this right now uh where are you

1205
00:47:22,430 --> 00:47:19,140
and yet

1206
00:47:24,589 --> 00:47:22,440
now I look at my experience now where I

1207
00:47:26,990 --> 00:47:24,599
go into these states where I kind of

1208
00:47:28,870 --> 00:47:27,000
Channel information and I think that was

1209
00:47:31,010 --> 00:47:28,880
happening even when I was a young kid

1210
00:47:32,510 --> 00:47:31,020
but of course I didn't have the language

1211
00:47:34,010 --> 00:47:32,520
for that I wasn't brought up in a

1212
00:47:35,930 --> 00:47:34,020
tradition that had that kind of language

1213
00:47:39,230 --> 00:47:35,940
it was just daydreaming right which is

1214
00:47:40,490 --> 00:47:39,240
very kind of you know kind of has a

1215
00:47:42,109 --> 00:47:40,500
negative connotation of nothing good

1216
00:47:43,670 --> 00:47:42,119
about it right

1217
00:47:46,309 --> 00:47:43,680
um and no one was considering that that

1218
00:47:48,230 --> 00:47:46,319
actually could be a a way of achieving

1219
00:47:51,050 --> 00:47:48,240
information or or obtaining information

1220
00:47:54,430 --> 00:47:51,060
from some extra dimensional Source or

1221
00:47:58,910 --> 00:47:54,440
something so it's it's really hard to

1222
00:48:05,150 --> 00:48:01,430
just how broad and deep the the

1223
00:48:07,510 --> 00:48:05,160
transformation has been sometimes

1224
00:48:10,069 --> 00:48:07,520
I kind of have to shake my head and and

1225
00:48:12,710 --> 00:48:10,079
step back and say wow how much has

1226
00:48:15,010 --> 00:48:12,720
changed over the last few years and it

1227
00:48:17,450 --> 00:48:15,020
really is a tremendous amount of change

1228
00:48:18,950 --> 00:48:17,460
and I'm still right in the midst of it

1229
00:48:21,349 --> 00:48:18,960
right it feels like I was saying to you

1230
00:48:22,790 --> 00:48:21,359
before we went on the air that when I

1231
00:48:25,990 --> 00:48:22,800
kind of have these realizations and

1232
00:48:29,390 --> 00:48:26,000
these Revelations uh they kind of

1233
00:48:32,390 --> 00:48:29,400
compound and transcend the last one so

1234
00:48:35,089 --> 00:48:32,400
no sooner do I sort of think about how I

1235
00:48:36,890 --> 00:48:35,099
want to communicate one

1236
00:48:38,210 --> 00:48:36,900
segment of information that then the

1237
00:48:42,589 --> 00:48:38,220
next one comes it helps me understand

1238
00:48:44,150 --> 00:48:42,599
how that uh made more sense in in the

1239
00:48:46,390 --> 00:48:44,160
larger picture

1240
00:48:49,370 --> 00:48:46,400
um so it's it's yeah I really can't

1241
00:48:50,270 --> 00:48:49,380
overstate how how transformative it's

1242
00:48:52,130 --> 00:48:50,280
been

1243
00:48:53,630 --> 00:48:52,140
while at the same time and I want to

1244
00:48:55,970 --> 00:48:53,640
turn over to you to give some feedback

1245
00:48:57,349 --> 00:48:55,980
here because I can understand to someone

1246
00:49:01,309 --> 00:48:57,359
who maybe who hasn't had these

1247
00:49:03,050 --> 00:49:01,319
experiences it sounds increasingly like

1248
00:49:06,109 --> 00:49:03,060
um like delusions of grandeur or

1249
00:49:08,690 --> 00:49:06,119
something you know it just it sounds so

1250
00:49:12,230 --> 00:49:08,700
um outside the norm of what's expected

1251
00:49:14,150 --> 00:49:12,240
and uh you know even

1252
00:49:15,530 --> 00:49:14,160
comes close to what we describe as

1253
00:49:18,470 --> 00:49:15,540
people who are wrestling with mental

1254
00:49:21,290 --> 00:49:18,480
illness right like how how how sound is

1255
00:49:22,849 --> 00:49:21,300
their mind so to speak so let me turn it

1256
00:49:25,010 --> 00:49:22,859
over to you what what's your experience

1257
00:49:26,990 --> 00:49:25,020
been like how is it different than mine

1258
00:49:29,630 --> 00:49:27,000
and what has it been like for you as my

1259
00:49:32,630 --> 00:49:29,640
friend over the last year or so uh to

1260
00:49:35,450 --> 00:49:32,640
sort of see this this happening to me

1261
00:49:39,370 --> 00:49:35,460
yeah great questions uh

1262
00:49:42,890 --> 00:49:39,380
you know for me it has been this uh

1263
00:49:46,370 --> 00:49:42,900
reignition of belief uh and as you were

1264
00:49:49,609 --> 00:49:46,380
talking it it reminded me

1265
00:49:51,650 --> 00:49:49,619
of how beliefs that we come to in our

1266
00:49:54,290 --> 00:49:51,660
life

1267
00:49:55,370 --> 00:49:54,300
are opportunities that we

1268
00:49:59,809 --> 00:49:55,380
there

1269
00:50:02,410 --> 00:49:59,819
are invitations for us to go in and

1270
00:50:04,910 --> 00:50:02,420
reinterpret our past you know that

1271
00:50:07,690 --> 00:50:04,920
that's just the nature of how belief

1272
00:50:11,750 --> 00:50:07,700
functions right we're excellent at

1273
00:50:13,490 --> 00:50:11,760
incorporating belief into our our and

1274
00:50:17,450 --> 00:50:13,500
assimilating that into our notion of

1275
00:50:20,329 --> 00:50:17,460
self and uh you know so

1276
00:50:22,910 --> 00:50:20,339
for me it's done a few things that it's

1277
00:50:26,329 --> 00:50:22,920
allowed me to believe again in things

1278
00:50:28,750 --> 00:50:26,339
that I would have once really uh you

1279
00:50:33,250 --> 00:50:28,760
know turned a very cold shoulder to

1280
00:50:36,109 --> 00:50:33,260
and that that willingness to believe

1281
00:50:40,910 --> 00:50:36,119
uh you know or at least hold room for

1282
00:50:44,750 --> 00:50:40,920
belief has given me a lot more on a

1283
00:50:47,030 --> 00:50:44,760
personal level than my previous stance

1284
00:50:50,809 --> 00:50:47,040
of you know kind of

1285
00:50:52,910 --> 00:50:50,819
virulence you know agnosticism or uh you

1286
00:50:54,290 --> 00:50:52,920
know or Atheism in a way to toward

1287
00:50:57,770 --> 00:50:54,300
belief

1288
00:51:00,170 --> 00:50:57,780
um you know it I like myself better as a

1289
00:51:01,849 --> 00:51:00,180
person if I could sum this up uh as a

1290
00:51:03,770 --> 00:51:01,859
believing person or a person who's

1291
00:51:06,109 --> 00:51:03,780
willing to believe I like that kind of

1292
00:51:08,270 --> 00:51:06,119
person that I am more than I like the

1293
00:51:11,450 --> 00:51:08,280
person who isn't

1294
00:51:15,130 --> 00:51:11,460
um and and I recognize that to the

1295
00:51:19,549 --> 00:51:15,140
outsider particularly in our day who

1296
00:51:21,829 --> 00:51:19,559
uh really wants that you know solid

1297
00:51:24,470 --> 00:51:21,839
proof you know they have to have data in

1298
00:51:26,089 --> 00:51:24,480
order to base a belief on it and if they

1299
00:51:28,670 --> 00:51:26,099
don't have the data then the rest is

1300
00:51:30,410 --> 00:51:28,680
just Superstition it's craziness and you

1301
00:51:31,970 --> 00:51:30,420
know why would you do that

1302
00:51:34,309 --> 00:51:31,980
um I understand that point of view and

1303
00:51:37,030 --> 00:51:34,319
I've lived many many years from that

1304
00:51:40,010 --> 00:51:37,040
perspective but you know for me this

1305
00:51:43,309 --> 00:51:40,020
journey has shown

1306
00:51:44,870 --> 00:51:43,319
in many ways the the kind of fallacy of

1307
00:51:46,430 --> 00:51:44,880
that thinking

1308
00:51:51,049 --> 00:51:46,440
um because

1309
00:51:52,910 --> 00:51:51,059
we all have beliefs you know whether you

1310
00:51:54,470 --> 00:51:52,920
look at my beliefs and you say oh those

1311
00:51:56,510 --> 00:51:54,480
are kind of crazy and I can't believe

1312
00:51:57,829 --> 00:51:56,520
you would entertain that to be true you

1313
00:52:00,710 --> 00:51:57,839
know I could easily take many of the

1314
00:52:04,010 --> 00:52:00,720
things that that that people today

1315
00:52:06,049 --> 00:52:04,020
commonly believe and I could I could

1316
00:52:08,450 --> 00:52:06,059
examine those and say are you really are

1317
00:52:10,609 --> 00:52:08,460
you sure about this you know is this as

1318
00:52:14,270 --> 00:52:10,619
solid as you think it is and I think if

1319
00:52:15,530 --> 00:52:14,280
we do that exercise we'll find that

1320
00:52:19,730 --> 00:52:15,540
you know

1321
00:52:21,829 --> 00:52:19,740
pretty much everywhere

1322
00:52:23,690 --> 00:52:21,839
um and it just so happens to be that the

1323
00:52:26,809 --> 00:52:23,700
more people who believe like we believe

1324
00:52:30,349 --> 00:52:26,819
it makes it has the illusion of of

1325
00:52:32,510 --> 00:52:30,359
conviction and truth and and reality uh

1326
00:52:34,130 --> 00:52:32,520
and that that in and of itself is also a

1327
00:52:36,410 --> 00:52:34,140
clue uh that points towards something

1328
00:52:37,730 --> 00:52:36,420
that we that we can touch on perhaps

1329
00:52:38,329 --> 00:52:37,740
later

1330
00:52:41,990 --> 00:52:38,339
um

1331
00:52:44,569 --> 00:52:42,000
so you know it's been uh it's been an

1332
00:52:46,370 --> 00:52:44,579
exciting Journey for me uh to to kind of

1333
00:52:49,309 --> 00:52:46,380
go down all these rabbit holes and

1334
00:52:50,990 --> 00:52:49,319
explore them and it does it does in many

1335
00:52:53,150 --> 00:52:51,000
ways it has changed the way I look at my

1336
00:52:55,130 --> 00:52:53,160
past uh the way that you describe I've

1337
00:52:56,809 --> 00:52:55,140
looked back at you know the journeys

1338
00:52:58,549 --> 00:52:56,819
that I've been on and what I've learned

1339
00:53:01,910 --> 00:52:58,559
and experiences that I've had with

1340
00:53:04,790 --> 00:53:01,920
people and I've looked at them with a

1341
00:53:06,589 --> 00:53:04,800
fresh perspective and and I'm very

1342
00:53:09,109 --> 00:53:06,599
grateful for that because it's

1343
00:53:11,750 --> 00:53:09,119
you know it's it's like meeting a new

1344
00:53:14,150 --> 00:53:11,760
person and uh and I think we can get

1345
00:53:16,370 --> 00:53:14,160
really in a rut quite often and for me

1346
00:53:18,589 --> 00:53:16,380
this has been very exciting to kind of

1347
00:53:21,170 --> 00:53:18,599
get to know myself again from a

1348
00:53:23,390 --> 00:53:21,180
different vantage point now uh when it

1349
00:53:26,569 --> 00:53:23,400
comes to my journey with you

1350
00:53:29,990 --> 00:53:26,579
specifically you know that has been uh

1351
00:53:32,930 --> 00:53:30,000
you know incredibly interesting and um

1352
00:53:33,950 --> 00:53:32,940
you know we we joke about this I think a

1353
00:53:36,290 --> 00:53:33,960
good bit

1354
00:53:38,089 --> 00:53:36,300
uh you know so I'll just point out some

1355
00:53:40,490 --> 00:53:38,099
of the you know the obvious here but

1356
00:53:43,069 --> 00:53:40,500
it's strange that you and I happen to

1357
00:53:45,730 --> 00:53:43,079
live uh with you know mere miles away

1358
00:53:50,030 --> 00:53:45,740
from each other that um

1359
00:53:52,790 --> 00:53:50,040
we we have the backgrounds that we do uh

1360
00:53:55,250 --> 00:53:52,800
which by the way are our academic

1361
00:53:57,410 --> 00:53:55,260
Journeys and our personal Journeys don't

1362
00:54:00,530 --> 00:53:57,420
in any way shape or form span our

1363
00:54:03,410 --> 00:54:00,540
Geographic uh uh upbringing you know we

1364
00:54:05,750 --> 00:54:03,420
we've both lived uh all over the place

1365
00:54:07,130 --> 00:54:05,760
and and me more so in the South but

1366
00:54:10,370 --> 00:54:07,140
certainly not in any one particular

1367
00:54:12,710 --> 00:54:10,380
location uh we both come from different

1368
00:54:14,690 --> 00:54:12,720
uh you know sort of sub sects of

1369
00:54:16,549 --> 00:54:14,700
religious uh tradition of Christianity

1370
00:54:18,410 --> 00:54:16,559
and have had different Journeys in the

1371
00:54:20,150 --> 00:54:18,420
in Christianity

1372
00:54:23,270 --> 00:54:20,160
um and doing it for different teachings

1373
00:54:25,069 --> 00:54:23,280
and so uh to having having traveled all

1374
00:54:28,069 --> 00:54:25,079
over these terrains and then kind of

1375
00:54:30,650 --> 00:54:28,079
landed in the same Locale and then also

1376
00:54:35,569 --> 00:54:30,660
happen to have been interested in this

1377
00:54:37,849 --> 00:54:35,579
topic at this time uh and then found

1378
00:54:40,730 --> 00:54:37,859
each other through these virtual mediums

1379
00:54:42,109 --> 00:54:40,740
that we that we have I mean that's quite

1380
00:54:45,309 --> 00:54:42,119
remarkable

1381
00:54:47,930 --> 00:54:45,319
um I I'm grateful for that I don't know

1382
00:54:50,630 --> 00:54:47,940
you know I would like to attribute that

1383
00:54:52,790 --> 00:54:50,640
to some sort of plan or some sort of uh

1384
00:54:54,349 --> 00:54:52,800
you know guiding hand and perhaps that

1385
00:54:55,250 --> 00:54:54,359
that is true

1386
00:54:57,950 --> 00:54:55,260
um

1387
00:55:00,349 --> 00:54:57,960
I like the idea that it is true you know

1388
00:55:02,990 --> 00:55:00,359
so it's been incredibly enriching just

1389
00:55:04,910 --> 00:55:03,000
to you know to be able to be a part of

1390
00:55:06,710 --> 00:55:04,920
this conversation with you but

1391
00:55:09,290 --> 00:55:06,720
witnessing your journey in particular

1392
00:55:11,809 --> 00:55:09,300
you know someone who has put together

1393
00:55:13,849 --> 00:55:11,819
and continues to put together so many

1394
00:55:17,329 --> 00:55:13,859
you know cogent

1395
00:55:19,790 --> 00:55:17,339
excellent episodes on this topic uh that

1396
00:55:22,549 --> 00:55:19,800
I had likened to you know kind of a

1397
00:55:24,470 --> 00:55:22,559
professor of ufology you know breaking

1398
00:55:27,950 --> 00:55:24,480
down all these things and these really

1399
00:55:29,390 --> 00:55:27,960
easy to digest uh you know formats

1400
00:55:33,290 --> 00:55:29,400
um

1401
00:55:35,210 --> 00:55:33,300
to to then watching you like come every

1402
00:55:36,650 --> 00:55:35,220
week with me we're just like okay you

1403
00:55:38,150 --> 00:55:36,660
won't believe what like what's happening

1404
00:55:39,650 --> 00:55:38,160
now or like you know what I just learned

1405
00:55:41,510 --> 00:55:39,660
right you know you can't talk about this

1406
00:55:43,010 --> 00:55:41,520
or it's like there's so many things that

1407
00:55:44,270 --> 00:55:43,020
I know that's a huge tease to everybody

1408
00:55:47,809 --> 00:55:44,280
but

1409
00:55:50,569 --> 00:55:47,819
um you know they're week in and week out

1410
00:55:52,670 --> 00:55:50,579
you know watching you kind of go through

1411
00:55:54,609 --> 00:55:52,680
this transformation

1412
00:55:57,109 --> 00:55:54,619
um has been

1413
00:55:58,430 --> 00:55:57,119
exciting and at times I think as you

1414
00:55:59,990 --> 00:55:58,440
kind of hinted at like a little bit

1415
00:56:02,569 --> 00:56:00,000
jarring for me it's like you know

1416
00:56:04,250 --> 00:56:02,579
because I'm very much uh you know this

1417
00:56:06,109 --> 00:56:04,260
is where we we

1418
00:56:08,150 --> 00:56:06,119
differ in many ways and I mentioned this

1419
00:56:10,730 --> 00:56:08,160
to you before we got on tonight that I

1420
00:56:14,750 --> 00:56:10,740
kind of feel like I'm like the uh the

1421
00:56:16,190 --> 00:56:14,760
the catastrophe weather reporter uh

1422
00:56:18,950 --> 00:56:16,200
um who's out there in the middle of the

1423
00:56:20,690 --> 00:56:18,960
hurricane you know and uh you know I I

1424
00:56:22,730 --> 00:56:20,700
know there's a hurricane like I know

1425
00:56:24,710 --> 00:56:22,740
there's a there I'm in it you know I'm

1426
00:56:26,750 --> 00:56:24,720
listening to people I have friends

1427
00:56:27,950 --> 00:56:26,760
who've been through this and and I

1428
00:56:30,589 --> 00:56:27,960
believe them

1429
00:56:32,630 --> 00:56:30,599
um but but on there you know given the

1430
00:56:34,849 --> 00:56:32,640
report asking the questions and trying

1431
00:56:37,490 --> 00:56:34,859
to you know transfer this back to the

1432
00:56:40,849 --> 00:56:37,500
folks who don't have that experience who

1433
00:56:44,030 --> 00:56:40,859
aren't there on site uh and and I'm kind

1434
00:56:46,010 --> 00:56:44,040
of I'm stuck in between you know so

1435
00:56:48,109 --> 00:56:46,020
um it's it's a little bit weird for me

1436
00:56:49,609 --> 00:56:48,119
because I think the desire is there to

1437
00:56:52,549 --> 00:56:49,619
have an experience

1438
00:56:55,010 --> 00:56:52,559
um I have found myself many times and

1439
00:56:58,309 --> 00:56:55,020
this goes back to even my childhood uh

1440
00:57:01,010 --> 00:56:58,319
growing up in a Christian tradition

1441
00:57:04,490 --> 00:57:01,020
you know yearning for that very visceral

1442
00:57:06,829 --> 00:57:04,500
experience for that revelatory moment

1443
00:57:08,870 --> 00:57:06,839
um and and just not coming you know so I

1444
00:57:10,370 --> 00:57:08,880
don't know what that means uh I don't

1445
00:57:11,990 --> 00:57:10,380
know if it's my it's just how I'm wired

1446
00:57:14,630 --> 00:57:12,000
or what have you

1447
00:57:17,510 --> 00:57:14,640
um but I you know that's the one thing

1448
00:57:19,130 --> 00:57:17,520
that Separates Me from I think the the

1449
00:57:21,770 --> 00:57:19,140
deeper conviction that you have

1450
00:57:23,630 --> 00:57:21,780
developed you know as your journey has

1451
00:57:25,970 --> 00:57:23,640
continued you've you've had experience

1452
00:57:29,990 --> 00:57:25,980
upon experience upon experience and they

1453
00:57:31,849 --> 00:57:30,000
seem to be uh growing in uh frequency

1454
00:57:35,809 --> 00:57:31,859
and intensity

1455
00:57:37,490 --> 00:57:35,819
um whereas for me uh my experience is

1456
00:57:40,549 --> 00:57:37,500
growing in frequency and intensity but

1457
00:57:42,290 --> 00:57:40,559
through my relationship with you

1458
00:57:44,930 --> 00:57:42,300
um you know so it's it's just a very

1459
00:57:46,849 --> 00:57:44,940
different on-ramp

1460
00:57:48,049 --> 00:57:46,859
um but I'm grateful for that I think

1461
00:57:50,510 --> 00:57:48,059
that there are a lot of folks that are

1462
00:57:53,089 --> 00:57:50,520
in my position you know that that find

1463
00:57:55,910 --> 00:57:53,099
this topic to be incredibly compelling

1464
00:57:58,730 --> 00:57:55,920
as you mentioned earlier maybe the most

1465
00:58:00,349 --> 00:57:58,740
important topic of all time

1466
00:58:01,549 --> 00:58:00,359
um and we we always wonder like why

1467
00:58:03,530 --> 00:58:01,559
aren't more people interested in this

1468
00:58:05,089 --> 00:58:03,540
you know but there are a lot of folks

1469
00:58:06,170 --> 00:58:05,099
that are like me that haven't had an

1470
00:58:07,430 --> 00:58:06,180
experience

1471
00:58:09,829 --> 00:58:07,440
um but they they see that there's

1472
00:58:12,049 --> 00:58:09,839
there's there there and so you know to

1473
00:58:12,710 --> 00:58:12,059
those folks I would say

1474
00:58:14,930 --> 00:58:12,720
um

1475
00:58:17,630 --> 00:58:14,940
you know enjoy the journey and stay on

1476
00:58:19,970 --> 00:58:17,640
the Advent Venture and and and don't

1477
00:58:22,549 --> 00:58:19,980
Force anything right you know I think

1478
00:58:24,230 --> 00:58:22,559
it's it's tempting to get into this trap

1479
00:58:25,730 --> 00:58:24,240
of like I just really need an experience

1480
00:58:27,589 --> 00:58:25,740
and I'm going to force it no matter what

1481
00:58:30,170 --> 00:58:27,599
happens I'm gonna you know I'm gonna

1482
00:58:31,670 --> 00:58:30,180
consult with so and so and I'm gonna I

1483
00:58:33,950 --> 00:58:31,680
want The Hitchhiker you know like I

1484
00:58:36,650 --> 00:58:33,960
don't think that that's the right uh

1485
00:58:38,990 --> 00:58:36,660
perspective to take you know I think you

1486
00:58:41,030 --> 00:58:39,000
know we all have to um

1487
00:58:43,789 --> 00:58:41,040
do this kind of self-care and

1488
00:58:46,010 --> 00:58:43,799
self-knowledge and and and what work on

1489
00:58:48,890 --> 00:58:46,020
those practices every day and and then

1490
00:58:50,630 --> 00:58:48,900
let what comes come uh because that

1491
00:58:53,089 --> 00:58:50,640
that's really the better place to be in

1492
00:58:55,970 --> 00:58:53,099
that grounded position is going to best

1493
00:58:59,569 --> 00:58:55,980
prepare you for whatever may come your

1494
00:59:02,289 --> 00:58:59,579
way and I I am convinced that as

1495
00:59:05,809 --> 00:59:02,299
the world around us continues to change

1496
00:59:07,730 --> 00:59:05,819
you know we will be well equipped to

1497
00:59:10,190 --> 00:59:07,740
deal with that complexity that new

1498
00:59:12,049 --> 00:59:10,200
change that enters into our lives

1499
00:59:14,630 --> 00:59:12,059
because we have

1500
00:59:16,789 --> 00:59:14,640
we found that calm place in the storm uh

1501
00:59:19,549 --> 00:59:16,799
and we were able to kind of report and

1502
00:59:21,890 --> 00:59:19,559
and report back and get through it in a

1503
00:59:24,650 --> 00:59:21,900
way that others can identify just by

1504
00:59:26,690 --> 00:59:24,660
seeing how we approach it

1505
00:59:28,970 --> 00:59:26,700
there's a very long answer but I don't

1506
00:59:30,589 --> 00:59:28,980
know it's it's definitely what we're

1507
00:59:31,849 --> 00:59:30,599
thinking about and I'm glad we had the

1508
00:59:34,250 --> 00:59:31,859
conversation

1509
00:59:35,750 --> 00:59:34,260
yeah just a couple points I want to add

1510
00:59:39,710 --> 00:59:35,760
when I reflect on what you're saying

1511
00:59:42,910 --> 00:59:39,720
there I think for me uh one thing that

1512
00:59:46,069 --> 00:59:42,920
was really key in being able to embrace

1513
00:59:48,470 --> 00:59:46,079
these experiences and this these

1514
00:59:49,970 --> 00:59:48,480
Revelations is that

1515
00:59:51,650 --> 00:59:49,980
like you mentioned in the past right

1516
00:59:54,470 --> 00:59:51,660
when you were in your agnostic or

1517
00:59:56,809 --> 00:59:54,480
atheist phase it was kind of because the

1518
01:00:00,589 --> 00:59:56,819
two options you were given was you know

1519
01:00:03,710 --> 01:00:00,599
traditionalist religion or you know

1520
01:00:05,870 --> 01:00:03,720
rational scientific understanding right

1521
01:00:07,430 --> 01:00:05,880
those were the two and and there really

1522
01:00:09,650 --> 01:00:07,440
wasn't much crossover right so it's

1523
01:00:11,450 --> 01:00:09,660
either you know you you believe what

1524
01:00:13,910 --> 01:00:11,460
science as it has been able to

1525
01:00:15,589 --> 01:00:13,920
empirically demonstrate is true or you

1526
01:00:17,150 --> 01:00:15,599
believe a bunch of wishful thinking that

1527
01:00:19,010 --> 01:00:17,160
some people have grown up with right

1528
01:00:21,770 --> 01:00:19,020
that's what it's sort of you're LED left

1529
01:00:23,210 --> 01:00:21,780
with that kind of uh on the table and

1530
01:00:25,490 --> 01:00:23,220
it's not surprising that you move

1531
01:00:28,569 --> 01:00:25,500
towards you know the scientific rational

1532
01:00:31,430 --> 01:00:28,579
you felt like that was actually based on

1533
01:00:33,109 --> 01:00:31,440
evidentiary truth right

1534
01:00:34,609 --> 01:00:33,119
um but I think for what for me what's

1535
01:00:36,530 --> 01:00:34,619
helped and I know you've been on this

1536
01:00:39,130 --> 01:00:36,540
journey too

1537
01:00:41,770 --> 01:00:39,140
is realizing that

1538
01:00:46,490 --> 01:00:41,780
reductionistic materialism physicalism

1539
01:00:49,430 --> 01:00:46,500
is actually an untenable model so uh for

1540
01:00:51,049 --> 01:00:49,440
me it's very much been that these two uh

1541
01:00:54,890 --> 01:00:51,059
Pistons have been firing at the same

1542
01:00:57,950 --> 01:00:54,900
time that my left brain has been able to

1543
01:01:00,650 --> 01:00:57,960
say wait a second you know all this is

1544
01:01:03,289 --> 01:01:00,660
up for grabs because actually you know

1545
01:01:06,710 --> 01:01:03,299
this notion that there's a physical

1546
01:01:08,510 --> 01:01:06,720
Universe apart from Consciousness and

1547
01:01:12,289 --> 01:01:08,520
that the idea that Consciousness is kind

1548
01:01:15,530 --> 01:01:12,299
of this derivative of just you know

1549
01:01:18,470 --> 01:01:15,540
matter stuff right and it's not really

1550
01:01:21,890 --> 01:01:18,480
meaningful and it's just a a brief

1551
01:01:23,690 --> 01:01:21,900
flurry of cognitive interactions of

1552
01:01:26,089 --> 01:01:23,700
neurons that are gonna die and then

1553
01:01:27,770 --> 01:01:26,099
there was nothing to you going from that

1554
01:01:29,390 --> 01:01:27,780
and being convinced that that kind of

1555
01:01:31,970 --> 01:01:29,400
was the right perspective

1556
01:01:34,250 --> 01:01:31,980
to suddenly realizing no actually

1557
01:01:35,990 --> 01:01:34,260
a notion like space-time exists within

1558
01:01:38,329 --> 01:01:36,000
Consciousness that just because

1559
01:01:40,010 --> 01:01:38,339
something like I say many times you can

1560
01:01:41,809 --> 01:01:40,020
knock on a desk it can make a sound you

1561
01:01:43,910 --> 01:01:41,819
can feel it on your knuckle that doesn't

1562
01:01:46,670 --> 01:01:43,920
make it any that doesn't make it

1563
01:01:48,230 --> 01:01:46,680
foundationally real any more than when

1564
01:01:50,690 --> 01:01:48,240
you have that experience in a dream you

1565
01:01:53,329 --> 01:01:50,700
get the same sort of sensation but

1566
01:01:55,970 --> 01:01:53,339
because we have this shared Collective

1567
01:01:57,470 --> 01:01:55,980
delusion around believing that again we

1568
01:02:00,049 --> 01:01:57,480
talked we've talked in this episode a

1569
01:02:02,089 --> 01:02:00,059
few times now about this unquestioned

1570
01:02:04,130 --> 01:02:02,099
inheritance we we come up with right

1571
01:02:06,890 --> 01:02:04,140
this is one of the unquestioned

1572
01:02:09,650 --> 01:02:06,900
inheritances that we all inherit in

1573
01:02:12,049 --> 01:02:09,660
Western Civilization is this notion that

1574
01:02:14,630 --> 01:02:12,059
science has proved these things about

1575
01:02:17,150 --> 01:02:14,640
nature and and yet it hasn't that's not

1576
01:02:19,250 --> 01:02:17,160
even what science Sciences is in the

1577
01:02:21,410 --> 01:02:19,260
business of doing science is in the

1578
01:02:23,809 --> 01:02:21,420
business of modeling what nature does

1579
01:02:26,049 --> 01:02:23,819
how nature behaves and we've been able

1580
01:02:29,089 --> 01:02:26,059
to transform transform our Civilization

1581
01:02:31,309 --> 01:02:29,099
by way of that predictive power we've

1582
01:02:32,809 --> 01:02:31,319
gained right as a mechanism

1583
01:02:34,490 --> 01:02:32,819
but that doesn't tell us what It

1584
01:02:37,370 --> 01:02:34,500
ultimately is it just tells us what it

1585
01:02:38,390 --> 01:02:37,380
does any more than a kid playing a video

1586
01:02:40,910 --> 01:02:38,400
game

1587
01:02:42,650 --> 01:02:40,920
might you know become really good a 10

1588
01:02:44,510 --> 01:02:42,660
year old can Master a game because they

1589
01:02:46,309 --> 01:02:44,520
play it constantly they don't really

1590
01:02:48,410 --> 01:02:46,319
understand what's going on the the

1591
01:02:51,230 --> 01:02:48,420
computer the software the circuitry

1592
01:02:53,569 --> 01:02:51,240
that's really behind that right so so

1593
01:02:56,510 --> 01:02:53,579
for me it's definitely been

1594
01:02:58,910 --> 01:02:56,520
a really interesting mix of on the one

1595
01:03:01,250 --> 01:02:58,920
hand recognizing wait a second reality

1596
01:03:02,690 --> 01:03:01,260
is is much different than what we've

1597
01:03:05,270 --> 01:03:02,700
been taught and I'm having these

1598
01:03:07,730 --> 01:03:05,280
experiences which made me open to them

1599
01:03:09,710 --> 01:03:07,740
more because of that marriage with this

1600
01:03:11,510 --> 01:03:09,720
new understanding of what underpins

1601
01:03:12,770 --> 01:03:11,520
reality so

1602
01:03:15,890 --> 01:03:12,780
um and so even when you brought up the

1603
01:03:22,010 --> 01:03:18,049
the synchronicity of us living in the

1604
01:03:23,930 --> 01:03:22,020
same area with a similar backgrounds and

1605
01:03:26,089 --> 01:03:23,940
again I think if you look at reality

1606
01:03:29,270 --> 01:03:26,099
more like this

1607
01:03:31,609 --> 01:03:29,280
um projection based on the interaction

1608
01:03:34,970 --> 01:03:31,619
of like conscious agents and that it's

1609
01:03:37,490 --> 01:03:34,980
more like a social network that uh

1610
01:03:39,470 --> 01:03:37,500
expresses itself spatially temporally

1611
01:03:41,630 --> 01:03:39,480
But ultimately it's the con the

1612
01:03:44,270 --> 01:03:41,640
meaningful connections behind the forms

1613
01:03:45,650 --> 01:03:44,280
that are ultimately real and that's been

1614
01:03:48,650 --> 01:03:45,660
my experience by the way in some of

1615
01:03:50,930 --> 01:03:48,660
these trans States I go into as well

1616
01:03:52,430 --> 01:03:50,940
then suddenly it's not surprising that

1617
01:03:53,990 --> 01:03:52,440
that you and I would end up living in

1618
01:03:56,329 --> 01:03:54,000
the same place and it's not

1619
01:03:58,490 --> 01:03:56,339
superstitious or religious of us to say

1620
01:04:00,710 --> 01:03:58,500
that there is some sort of uh you know

1621
01:04:04,130 --> 01:04:00,720
meaning behind that again it's it's the

1622
01:04:07,190 --> 01:04:04,140
The Inheritance we we sort of take on

1623
01:04:09,349 --> 01:04:07,200
about what reality is that makes us

1624
01:04:10,910 --> 01:04:09,359
not be able to see these things in these

1625
01:04:12,710 --> 01:04:10,920
ways but once you're open to that

1626
01:04:14,690 --> 01:04:12,720
because the model suddenly says

1627
01:04:17,089 --> 01:04:14,700
absolutely this could be the case then

1628
01:04:19,430 --> 01:04:17,099
suddenly you start noticing things that

1629
01:04:21,710 --> 01:04:19,440
you never noticed before which really

1630
01:04:23,930 --> 01:04:21,720
speaks to

1631
01:04:26,210 --> 01:04:23,940
what we're taught the models we inherit

1632
01:04:28,370 --> 01:04:26,220
actually really fundamentally change

1633
01:04:30,530 --> 01:04:28,380
what we see you know I've said this

1634
01:04:34,430 --> 01:04:30,540
before many times that a worldview

1635
01:04:35,990 --> 01:04:34,440
transformation is not just about seeing

1636
01:04:38,870 --> 01:04:36,000
um the same things differently it's

1637
01:04:40,849 --> 01:04:38,880
about seeing new things and again people

1638
01:04:42,049 --> 01:04:40,859
coming from a physicalist paradigm find

1639
01:04:43,190 --> 01:04:42,059
that very hard to believe they're like

1640
01:04:45,049 --> 01:04:43,200
come on why we're living in the same

1641
01:04:47,809 --> 01:04:45,059
world and I'm like we're really not

1642
01:04:51,170 --> 01:04:47,819
we're really not that this field of

1643
01:04:54,890 --> 01:04:51,180
mentation manifests spatial temporal

1644
01:04:55,970 --> 01:04:54,900
forms and whatnot uh differently and

1645
01:04:57,530 --> 01:04:55,980
because you're not in somebody else's

1646
01:04:59,329 --> 01:04:57,540
head and somebody else's experience you

1647
01:05:01,789 --> 01:04:59,339
just don't see it that way and because

1648
01:05:03,530 --> 01:05:01,799
there's so much cohesion around a

1649
01:05:06,530 --> 01:05:03,540
consensus reality in western

1650
01:05:09,049 --> 01:05:06,540
civilization it rarely gets questioned

1651
01:05:10,549 --> 01:05:09,059
but that's exactly why if you go to a

1652
01:05:12,829 --> 01:05:10,559
developing country or something or you

1653
01:05:15,349 --> 01:05:12,839
go to visit a shamanic culture you

1654
01:05:17,750 --> 01:05:15,359
actually see different things happen and

1655
01:05:19,609 --> 01:05:17,760
that's because the the consensus reality

1656
01:05:20,990 --> 01:05:19,619
is different I would suggest

1657
01:05:24,710 --> 01:05:21,000
mm-hmm

1658
01:05:27,170 --> 01:05:24,720
yeah and we I was reminded of um

1659
01:05:28,370 --> 01:05:27,180
a recent episode on uh with courage eye

1660
01:05:32,569 --> 01:05:28,380
Mongol and his theories of everything

1661
01:05:35,390 --> 01:05:32,579
podcast with Emma Gilchrist and uh uh it

1662
01:05:37,970 --> 01:05:35,400
was uh John pervaki and they were

1663
01:05:39,650 --> 01:05:37,980
talking about the meaning crisis and I

1664
01:05:41,510 --> 01:05:39,660
think you and I have touched on this

1665
01:05:45,109 --> 01:05:41,520
quite a bit and and some of that meeting

1666
01:05:47,569 --> 01:05:45,119
crisis is directly connected to the

1667
01:05:51,010 --> 01:05:47,579
materialist perspective it's not a

1668
01:05:54,710 --> 01:05:51,020
coincidence that atomizing everything

1669
01:05:58,849 --> 01:05:54,720
mechanizing everything from the

1670
01:06:01,910 --> 01:05:58,859
particles that make up matter to our our

1671
01:06:04,450 --> 01:06:01,920
organs to our individual selves to this

1672
01:06:07,849 --> 01:06:04,460
emphasis on our own unique perspective

1673
01:06:10,609 --> 01:06:07,859
uh of above and over every other

1674
01:06:13,490 --> 01:06:10,619
person's unique perspective this radical

1675
01:06:18,109 --> 01:06:13,500
individualism like it's not a surprise

1676
01:06:21,470 --> 01:06:18,119
that that thinking literally has an

1677
01:06:23,510 --> 01:06:21,480
impact on how we perceive the world how

1678
01:06:26,750 --> 01:06:23,520
we derive meaning from that experience

1679
01:06:30,109 --> 01:06:26,760
and and so many other things now now to

1680
01:06:32,809 --> 01:06:30,119
take a different View and to say well no

1681
01:06:36,470 --> 01:06:32,819
actually we are all connect affected you

1682
01:06:40,069 --> 01:06:36,480
know we we are all part of this same you

1683
01:06:43,370 --> 01:06:40,079
know substrate that that that to look at

1684
01:06:46,130 --> 01:06:43,380
the world and look for those connections

1685
01:06:48,710 --> 01:06:46,140
radically changes how you behave how you

1686
01:06:52,910 --> 01:06:48,720
think how you experience

1687
01:06:55,069 --> 01:06:52,920
and to me that is this profound uh we're

1688
01:06:57,710 --> 01:06:55,079
talking about things that have changed

1689
01:07:02,630 --> 01:06:57,720
us this this realization has changed me

1690
01:07:05,390 --> 01:07:02,640
and has redeemed my lived experience it

1691
01:07:08,569 --> 01:07:05,400
has allowed me to be more connected to

1692
01:07:10,130 --> 01:07:08,579
those in my life and to those who I have

1693
01:07:13,069 --> 01:07:10,140
not ever met

1694
01:07:15,829 --> 01:07:13,079
because even though I've not met them I

1695
01:07:19,010 --> 01:07:15,839
believe I am connected with them

1696
01:07:20,990 --> 01:07:19,020
so imagine that perspective if we all

1697
01:07:23,029 --> 01:07:21,000
took a perspective like it

1698
01:07:24,529 --> 01:07:23,039
you know the way we would interact with

1699
01:07:26,950 --> 01:07:24,539
one another the things we would be

1700
01:07:29,450 --> 01:07:26,960
looking for in terms of knowledge

1701
01:07:32,150 --> 01:07:29,460
understanding insight

1702
01:07:34,190 --> 01:07:32,160
all of that would be transformed and I

1703
01:07:37,490 --> 01:07:34,200
know that sounds very you know sort of

1704
01:07:40,250 --> 01:07:37,500
new agey but quite frankly like that's

1705
01:07:42,829 --> 01:07:40,260
been my experience you know and and you

1706
01:07:45,890 --> 01:07:42,839
know if you look for those kinds of

1707
01:07:48,470 --> 01:07:45,900
things to to be true and to manifest in

1708
01:07:50,630 --> 01:07:48,480
your in your own experience it turns out

1709
01:07:52,309 --> 01:07:50,640
you'll find them and you know I think

1710
01:07:55,309 --> 01:07:52,319
anyone that's had a

1711
01:07:57,470 --> 01:07:55,319
a synchronistic moment uh you know

1712
01:08:00,890 --> 01:07:57,480
whether they've been chasing this topic

1713
01:08:02,569 --> 01:08:00,900
or any other important decision in in

1714
01:08:05,569 --> 01:08:02,579
their life which is usually where these

1715
01:08:09,049 --> 01:08:05,579
things happen to appear uh interestingly

1716
01:08:12,829 --> 01:08:09,059
enough uh you know you you come away

1717
01:08:15,890 --> 01:08:12,839
from those experiences with that little

1718
01:08:17,930 --> 01:08:15,900
glimpse of the of the religious Epiphany

1719
01:08:19,970 --> 01:08:17,940
you know we don't want to call it that

1720
01:08:23,870 --> 01:08:19,980
but that's kind of what it is and that's

1721
01:08:26,390 --> 01:08:23,880
how we would describe it you know so so

1722
01:08:28,910 --> 01:08:26,400
I would encourage folks to

1723
01:08:30,709 --> 01:08:28,920
uh you know kind of Follow that take

1724
01:08:33,349 --> 01:08:30,719
that on and and see if they can

1725
01:08:34,729 --> 01:08:33,359
Implement that into their life uh there

1726
01:08:36,709 --> 01:08:34,739
are lots of different things that they

1727
01:08:39,590 --> 01:08:36,719
can do to I think put that into practice

1728
01:08:41,870 --> 01:08:39,600
and it is a practice and and quite

1729
01:08:43,789 --> 01:08:41,880
frankly it's a hard one because every

1730
01:08:47,090 --> 01:08:43,799
day you're going to be practicing that

1731
01:08:50,329 --> 01:08:47,100
way of thinking in opposition to

1732
01:08:52,010 --> 01:08:50,339
the counter prevailing narrative that

1733
01:08:54,410 --> 01:08:52,020
we've all been born into and it's really

1734
01:08:59,390 --> 01:08:57,050
yeah as you were talking there I had

1735
01:09:01,849 --> 01:08:59,400
a bunch of epiphanies coming to me

1736
01:09:03,829 --> 01:09:01,859
around you know things that have changed

1737
01:09:05,930 --> 01:09:03,839
over the last couple years and

1738
01:09:07,550 --> 01:09:05,940
I liked what you talked about there in

1739
01:09:09,410 --> 01:09:07,560
terms of you know

1740
01:09:10,610 --> 01:09:09,420
when we say something like religious

1741
01:09:11,809 --> 01:09:10,620
epiphany

1742
01:09:13,610 --> 01:09:11,819
immediately people hear the word

1743
01:09:16,430 --> 01:09:13,620
religious and they go ah not interested

1744
01:09:18,650 --> 01:09:16,440
in that that's old mumbo jumbo

1745
01:09:23,090 --> 01:09:18,660
um but again one thing that you and I

1746
01:09:26,269 --> 01:09:23,100
keep on about on this podcast is try to

1747
01:09:28,729 --> 01:09:26,279
separate an experience or an event or

1748
01:09:30,470 --> 01:09:28,739
phenomena from the interpretation of it

1749
01:09:33,470 --> 01:09:30,480
from the baggage that's been associated

1750
01:09:35,510 --> 01:09:33,480
with it I know that I said to you after

1751
01:09:37,490 --> 01:09:35,520
this really mind-blowing experience I

1752
01:09:40,010 --> 01:09:37,500
had I think just before our last

1753
01:09:42,050 --> 01:09:40,020
episodes or two weeks ago

1754
01:09:44,209 --> 01:09:42,060
I said to you it was the closest thing

1755
01:09:46,729 --> 01:09:44,219
I've had to a full-blown religious

1756
01:09:48,729 --> 01:09:46,739
experience and by that I didn't mean you

1757
01:09:52,189 --> 01:09:48,739
know it followed a dogmatic you know

1758
01:09:54,470 --> 01:09:52,199
religious tradition I meant that it was

1759
01:09:57,410 --> 01:09:54,480
this I was referring to the level of

1760
01:10:00,470 --> 01:09:57,420
impact right that the was so

1761
01:10:02,330 --> 01:10:00,480
transformative and it was so spoke so

1762
01:10:04,130 --> 01:10:02,340
much to the core of my being and who I

1763
01:10:06,770 --> 01:10:04,140
was and

1764
01:10:09,110 --> 01:10:06,780
um Revelations Beyond this lifetime even

1765
01:10:10,490 --> 01:10:09,120
right and how else can you describe it

1766
01:10:11,390 --> 01:10:10,500
and

1767
01:10:13,970 --> 01:10:11,400
um

1768
01:10:15,709 --> 01:10:13,980
and what's ironic is in our religious

1769
01:10:17,390 --> 01:10:15,719
Traditions you know for instance in the

1770
01:10:19,430 --> 01:10:17,400
Traditions that you and I were in again

1771
01:10:21,590 --> 01:10:19,440
some are more open to to new experiences

1772
01:10:23,810 --> 01:10:21,600
than others but a lot of it has been

1773
01:10:25,310 --> 01:10:23,820
reduced to just referring to events that

1774
01:10:26,810 --> 01:10:25,320
used to happen to people thousands of

1775
01:10:27,950 --> 01:10:26,820
years ago

1776
01:10:30,790 --> 01:10:27,960
um

1777
01:10:33,110 --> 01:10:30,800
rather than seeing that these same

1778
01:10:34,550 --> 01:10:33,120
interdimensional non-human intelligences

1779
01:10:37,370 --> 01:10:34,560
that we're interacting with people then

1780
01:10:39,649 --> 01:10:37,380
still are and

1781
01:10:44,390 --> 01:10:39,659
um and that when that kind of thing

1782
01:10:46,669 --> 01:10:44,400
happens it can be just as transformative

1783
01:10:49,010 --> 01:10:46,679
um and mind-blowing

1784
01:10:51,050 --> 01:10:49,020
um as the experiences that they had as

1785
01:10:53,149 --> 01:10:51,060
well and uh

1786
01:10:54,830 --> 01:10:53,159
and I would say it's amazing when I look

1787
01:10:56,930 --> 01:10:54,840
back and and realize now I've I've

1788
01:10:58,729 --> 01:10:56,940
become great friends with people all

1789
01:11:00,410 --> 01:10:58,739
around the world

1790
01:11:01,970 --> 01:11:00,420
you could say because of my podcast

1791
01:11:04,430 --> 01:11:01,980
because they've reached out to me but

1792
01:11:05,350 --> 01:11:04,440
often because they have had this sense

1793
01:11:08,450 --> 01:11:05,360
that

1794
01:11:10,189 --> 01:11:08,460
something's telling them right

1795
01:11:12,290 --> 01:11:10,199
reach out to this person you're

1796
01:11:14,630 --> 01:11:12,300
connected to this person somehow that

1797
01:11:18,290 --> 01:11:14,640
there's this this larger orchestration

1798
01:11:20,090 --> 01:11:18,300
going on behind the scenes that all I'm

1799
01:11:22,189 --> 01:11:20,100
doing is being

1800
01:11:25,370 --> 01:11:22,199
um is going with what I feel led to do

1801
01:11:28,310 --> 01:11:25,380
right in my the part that I play and

1802
01:11:29,930 --> 01:11:28,320
what looks clearer when you sort of step

1803
01:11:32,090 --> 01:11:29,940
back is that there's some sort of

1804
01:11:34,130 --> 01:11:32,100
orchestration going on even amongst

1805
01:11:37,070 --> 01:11:34,140
people around the world

1806
01:11:39,229 --> 01:11:37,080
um by some sort of intelligence that uh

1807
01:11:41,689 --> 01:11:39,239
is beyond what we usually consider as

1808
01:11:45,169 --> 01:11:41,699
possible in our mainstream conventional

1809
01:11:47,510 --> 01:11:45,179
Western understanding and and to be to

1810
01:11:49,250 --> 01:11:47,520
feel a part of that

1811
01:11:51,229 --> 01:11:49,260
when you talk about the meaning crisis

1812
01:11:53,149 --> 01:11:51,239
right in our civilization which is so

1813
01:11:55,850 --> 01:11:53,159
true so true

1814
01:12:00,590 --> 01:11:58,370
to on the contrary to that to feel like

1815
01:12:02,750 --> 01:12:00,600
you're a part of something some movement

1816
01:12:05,930 --> 01:12:02,760
that it's not just like

1817
01:12:08,330 --> 01:12:05,940
full of woo and exciting spectacles in

1818
01:12:10,729 --> 01:12:08,340
the sky but is actually leading towards

1819
01:12:12,649 --> 01:12:10,739
a way to sort of model a different way

1820
01:12:15,770 --> 01:12:12,659
of Being Human a different way of being

1821
01:12:17,270 --> 01:12:15,780
a community of human beings that gets

1822
01:12:20,450 --> 01:12:17,280
really exciting and that makes you just

1823
01:12:22,850 --> 01:12:20,460
excited to be alive in this time here

1824
01:12:24,590 --> 01:12:22,860
and now and a part of something that's

1825
01:12:26,709 --> 01:12:24,600
bigger than all of us that's how I feel

1826
01:12:31,750 --> 01:12:26,719
when I look back on it

1827
01:12:34,370 --> 01:12:31,760
yeah well said and you know that

1828
01:12:37,070 --> 01:12:34,380
we're connected to our listeners you

1829
01:12:40,010 --> 01:12:37,080
know we're connected to uh folks that we

1830
01:12:42,950 --> 01:12:40,020
may never meet in person and um

1831
01:12:45,649 --> 01:12:42,960
and I would say too more broadly

1832
01:12:47,990 --> 01:12:45,659
you know we we can

1833
01:12:50,030 --> 01:12:48,000
kind of get caught in the Trap of

1834
01:12:53,630 --> 01:12:50,040
uh confusing

1835
01:12:55,430 --> 01:12:53,640
are our intense focus on this topic for

1836
01:12:57,950 --> 01:12:55,440
you know kind of what's happening

1837
01:12:59,990 --> 01:12:57,960
everywhere right and and forgetting that

1838
01:13:02,390 --> 01:13:00,000
what's happening everywhere is much

1839
01:13:04,250 --> 01:13:02,400
broader and deeper than than our narrow

1840
01:13:07,070 --> 01:13:04,260
Focus here I think that you and I would

1841
01:13:09,590 --> 01:13:07,080
agree that our focus on this topic is

1842
01:13:11,270 --> 01:13:09,600
allowing us to glean these important

1843
01:13:14,990 --> 01:13:11,280
insights into what's happening

1844
01:13:17,570 --> 01:13:15,000
everywhere but uh that's not to say that

1845
01:13:21,350 --> 01:13:17,580
there are grander movements at play that

1846
01:13:24,290 --> 01:13:21,360
that are that are bigger in many in so

1847
01:13:26,990 --> 01:13:24,300
many ways than just you know the UFO

1848
01:13:29,390 --> 01:13:27,000
issue or the UAP or you know phenomenal

1849
01:13:31,310 --> 01:13:29,400
experience or what what have you and as

1850
01:13:32,990 --> 01:13:31,320
we kind of talked about the earlier in

1851
01:13:35,570 --> 01:13:33,000
the show I mean just look to human

1852
01:13:38,270 --> 01:13:35,580
history and you'll you'll see what the

1853
01:13:40,010 --> 01:13:38,280
grander things are at play and and not

1854
01:13:42,530 --> 01:13:40,020
everything has been Rosy either I don't

1855
01:13:45,169 --> 01:13:42,540
want to sort of uh you know paint the

1856
01:13:48,890 --> 01:13:45,179
picture that we're uh we're on this

1857
01:13:50,930 --> 01:13:48,900
unbroken line of progress that uh has

1858
01:13:53,990 --> 01:13:50,940
not encountered some setbacks I mean we

1859
01:13:55,790 --> 01:13:54,000
very clearly have had many many periods

1860
01:13:58,010 --> 01:13:55,800
in our in our history that have been

1861
01:14:00,649 --> 01:13:58,020
fraught with uh wrong turns and

1862
01:14:01,790 --> 01:14:00,659
regressions and and all those kinds of

1863
01:14:02,390 --> 01:14:01,800
things

1864
01:14:03,890 --> 01:14:02,400
um

1865
01:14:07,070 --> 01:14:03,900
but

1866
01:14:09,410 --> 01:14:07,080
the impetus the the urge to move this

1867
01:14:12,649 --> 01:14:09,420
forward you know

1868
01:14:15,169 --> 01:14:12,659
I don't think that comes from uh you

1869
01:14:17,930 --> 01:14:15,179
know some sort of other being you know

1870
01:14:20,390 --> 01:14:17,940
it comes from Consciousness itself right

1871
01:14:23,750 --> 01:14:20,400
just so happens that other beings also

1872
01:14:26,990 --> 01:14:23,760
have that same Source right so so they

1873
01:14:30,050 --> 01:14:27,000
are prodding us along uh they and some

1874
01:14:32,570 --> 01:14:30,060
of them may not be as well but but the

1875
01:14:35,209 --> 01:14:32,580
overall you know kind of broad sweeping

1876
01:14:40,570 --> 01:14:35,219
movement is a movement of conscious

1877
01:14:43,970 --> 01:14:40,580
expression uh is this urge to kind of uh

1878
01:14:47,270 --> 01:14:43,980
see intelligence connect and intertwine

1879
01:14:49,070 --> 01:14:47,280
and and create uh and push us forward

1880
01:14:51,530 --> 01:14:49,080
and and I feel like we've entered the

1881
01:14:54,110 --> 01:14:51,540
the phase of the show this evening that

1882
01:14:55,910 --> 01:14:54,120
sounds quite spiritual and you know

1883
01:14:57,410 --> 01:14:55,920
we're painting in very broad strokes but

1884
01:15:00,050 --> 01:14:57,420
I'm hoping that folks can understand

1885
01:15:01,910 --> 01:15:00,060
that that this to this last few minutes

1886
01:15:03,830 --> 01:15:01,920
that we've been talking like this is

1887
01:15:07,010 --> 01:15:03,840
very this has impacted us in a very deep

1888
01:15:09,830 --> 01:15:07,020
way and it has has changed the way in

1889
01:15:12,410 --> 01:15:09,840
which we look at our own lives but also

1890
01:15:13,970 --> 01:15:12,420
human history and and the world as it is

1891
01:15:15,830 --> 01:15:13,980
today

1892
01:15:18,290 --> 01:15:15,840
yeah and it's it's a good point you know

1893
01:15:21,890 --> 01:15:18,300
we can

1894
01:15:25,070 --> 01:15:21,900
I think both of us kind of sometimes uh

1895
01:15:27,530 --> 01:15:25,080
lean towards sort of like the the you

1896
01:15:29,810 --> 01:15:27,540
know the picture of the or the

1897
01:15:31,430 --> 01:15:29,820
caricature of the uh the pipe smoking

1898
01:15:33,410 --> 01:15:31,440
Professor who likes to sit back and

1899
01:15:36,110 --> 01:15:33,420
observe things you know in kind of a

1900
01:15:37,370 --> 01:15:36,120
stoic way thirty thousand foot View and

1901
01:15:41,990 --> 01:15:37,380
that is something that's true for both

1902
01:15:45,950 --> 01:15:44,330
I think sometimes that kind of stoicism

1903
01:15:48,110 --> 01:15:45,960
can be

1904
01:15:49,910 --> 01:15:48,120
a result of feeling divorced from

1905
01:15:51,530 --> 01:15:49,920
feeling alive you know from feeling like

1906
01:15:53,990 --> 01:15:51,540
anything of real impact can actually

1907
01:15:57,709 --> 01:15:54,000
happen so you you sort of settle for

1908
01:16:01,490 --> 01:15:57,719
this kind of um stoic kind of

1909
01:16:04,310 --> 01:16:01,500
um arms length perspective on analysis

1910
01:16:07,850 --> 01:16:04,320
um and and what's been so interesting

1911
01:16:09,770 --> 01:16:07,860
for me in this in this process has been

1912
01:16:11,930 --> 01:16:09,780
you know you talked about me doing these

1913
01:16:13,430 --> 01:16:11,940
in-depth analyzes on on different

1914
01:16:14,810 --> 01:16:13,440
podcast episodes and point of

1915
01:16:17,870 --> 01:16:14,820
convergence

1916
01:16:19,790 --> 01:16:17,880
that it's very much been again a dual

1917
01:16:23,030 --> 01:16:19,800
piston kind of thing I feel like I've

1918
01:16:25,669 --> 01:16:23,040
been led to investigate certain topics

1919
01:16:28,970 --> 01:16:25,679
within the broad sphere of the UFO

1920
01:16:31,970 --> 01:16:28,980
phenomenon and

1921
01:16:34,070 --> 01:16:31,980
then Revelations arise in that process

1922
01:16:36,770 --> 01:16:34,080
that is much more than just what I can

1923
01:16:38,689 --> 01:16:36,780
come up with by far I had no idea that

1924
01:16:39,290 --> 01:16:38,699
was going to happen to begin with

1925
01:16:40,490 --> 01:16:39,300
um

1926
01:16:42,110 --> 01:16:40,500
and the other thing I want to say too

1927
01:16:43,729 --> 01:16:42,120
and I because you made this point and I

1928
01:16:48,169 --> 01:16:43,739
I always want to

1929
01:16:49,550 --> 01:16:48,179
make this point this caveat because uh

1930
01:16:51,830 --> 01:16:49,560
I don't want people to come away from

1931
01:16:54,229 --> 01:16:51,840
these conversations thinking that the

1932
01:16:56,630 --> 01:16:54,239
only intelligences that are here are

1933
01:16:57,950 --> 01:16:56,640
these super moral you know hyper

1934
01:17:00,530 --> 01:16:57,960
Advanced

1935
01:17:02,630 --> 01:17:00,540
um here to take care of the daycare kids

1936
01:17:05,810 --> 01:17:02,640
who have lost their way

1937
01:17:08,209 --> 01:17:05,820
the just like with Humanity uh just like

1938
01:17:11,330 --> 01:17:08,219
wandering into the jungle it's complex

1939
01:17:14,149 --> 01:17:11,340
it's not it's not simple it's not

1940
01:17:15,130 --> 01:17:14,159
necessarily always safe uh any more than

1941
01:17:15,890 --> 01:17:15,140
life is

1942
01:17:17,510 --> 01:17:15,900
[Music]

1943
01:17:19,490 --> 01:17:17,520
um

1944
01:17:21,890 --> 01:17:19,500
you know I think before we went on the

1945
01:17:23,930 --> 01:17:21,900
air I was saying to you that

1946
01:17:25,970 --> 01:17:23,940
I see at least three different kinds of

1947
01:17:28,550 --> 01:17:25,980
experiences that people have

1948
01:17:31,189 --> 01:17:28,560
there are some people like myself who

1949
01:17:34,370 --> 01:17:31,199
have been fortunate enough to be in

1950
01:17:36,950 --> 01:17:34,380
contact with benevolent groups and

1951
01:17:39,290 --> 01:17:36,960
intelligences that seem to be working

1952
01:17:41,270 --> 01:17:39,300
towards some greater good

1953
01:17:44,090 --> 01:17:41,280
there there are other groups that seem

1954
01:17:46,070 --> 01:17:44,100
to be much more self-serving now that

1955
01:17:47,810 --> 01:17:46,080
doesn't mean they're necessarily evil in

1956
01:17:50,450 --> 01:17:47,820
terms of like a demonic kind of

1957
01:17:52,850 --> 01:17:50,460
characterization of just nothing but you

1958
01:17:54,709 --> 01:17:52,860
know Darkness but more like an

1959
01:17:57,110 --> 01:17:54,719
immaturity and kind of a self-serving

1960
01:17:58,970 --> 01:17:57,120
that touching on what you said they

1961
01:18:01,189 --> 01:17:58,980
haven't yet had that non-dual

1962
01:18:03,050 --> 01:18:01,199
realization that they are part of the

1963
01:18:04,870 --> 01:18:03,060
Bedrock of Consciousness and that by

1964
01:18:07,310 --> 01:18:04,880
hurting us they're hurting themselves

1965
01:18:08,990 --> 01:18:07,320
all conscious agents need to go through

1966
01:18:11,630 --> 01:18:09,000
that progression some of them have not

1967
01:18:13,550 --> 01:18:11,640
yet even when they have advanced

1968
01:18:15,950 --> 01:18:13,560
technology advanced technology does not

1969
01:18:18,110 --> 01:18:15,960
necessarily equate to Advanced morality

1970
01:18:19,250 --> 01:18:18,120
or a non-dual understanding of

1971
01:18:21,890 --> 01:18:19,260
consciousness

1972
01:18:24,050 --> 01:18:21,900
so that's another group and there's also

1973
01:18:25,850 --> 01:18:24,060
a kind which I think sort of fits more

1974
01:18:28,910 --> 01:18:25,860
with the podcast episode I did this last

1975
01:18:32,030 --> 01:18:28,920
week on point of convergence where

1976
01:18:34,550 --> 01:18:32,040
if you have a really finite fixed sense

1977
01:18:36,169 --> 01:18:34,560
of self as being this individual who's

1978
01:18:37,729 --> 01:18:36,179
been alive for a few decades and has

1979
01:18:39,770 --> 01:18:37,739
this history came from these parents

1980
01:18:42,290 --> 01:18:39,780
grew up in this place and you're really

1981
01:18:43,669 --> 01:18:42,300
fixed on that identity then sometimes

1982
01:18:45,229 --> 01:18:43,679
these experiences with these other

1983
01:18:48,350 --> 01:18:45,239
intelligences

1984
01:18:49,510 --> 01:18:48,360
are so mind-bending so

1985
01:18:52,610 --> 01:18:49,520
um

1986
01:18:55,189 --> 01:18:52,620
personality expanding right they they

1987
01:18:56,570 --> 01:18:55,199
they quickly dissolve those false

1988
01:18:59,149 --> 01:18:56,580
borders they show them for what they

1989
01:19:01,790 --> 01:18:59,159
really are but in that process it can

1990
01:19:04,189 --> 01:19:01,800
feel like uh like a Kundalini like

1991
01:19:06,350 --> 01:19:04,199
breakdown basically where it can feel

1992
01:19:08,930 --> 01:19:06,360
like you're dying because your your

1993
01:19:12,169 --> 01:19:08,940
sense your fixed sense of self literally

1994
01:19:14,090 --> 01:19:12,179
does get challenged and transcended in

1995
01:19:16,250 --> 01:19:14,100
that process and that itself can feel it

1996
01:19:17,689 --> 01:19:16,260
completely overwhelming along with all

1997
01:19:19,790 --> 01:19:17,699
the ontological shock of coming into

1998
01:19:21,649 --> 01:19:19,800
contact with beings that people have

1999
01:19:23,510 --> 01:19:21,659
been told should not exist cannot exist

2000
01:19:25,550 --> 01:19:23,520
so there's at least those three

2001
01:19:27,410 --> 01:19:25,560
different kinds of things going on uh

2002
01:19:30,890 --> 01:19:27,420
and that's just that's still very broad

2003
01:19:32,270 --> 01:19:30,900
Strokes it's very very complex but you

2004
01:19:33,820 --> 01:19:32,280
know we just want to bring this to

2005
01:19:34,189 --> 01:19:33,830
people's attention

2006
01:19:35,450 --> 01:19:34,199
[Music]

2007
01:19:37,310 --> 01:19:35,460
um

2008
01:19:38,450 --> 01:19:37,320
because this is complex and because

2009
01:19:40,550 --> 01:19:38,460
there are many different groups even

2010
01:19:43,550 --> 01:19:40,560
from different origin sources within

2011
01:19:45,229 --> 01:19:43,560
what we you know conveniently call the

2012
01:19:46,910 --> 01:19:45,239
UFO phenomenon we have to remember that

2013
01:19:48,950 --> 01:19:46,920
one person's experience is not the same

2014
01:19:50,570 --> 01:19:48,960
as another's and I know that we we often

2015
01:19:52,070 --> 01:19:50,580
talk about this but

2016
01:19:54,950 --> 01:19:52,080
if someone's had a great experience

2017
01:19:56,390 --> 01:19:54,960
don't dismiss it don't try and tell them

2018
01:19:58,850 --> 01:19:56,400
it's wishful thinking don't tell them

2019
01:20:01,430 --> 01:19:58,860
they're being deceived by beings that

2020
01:20:02,750 --> 01:20:01,440
like are out to fool them likewise if

2021
01:20:04,610 --> 01:20:02,760
people have had a negative experience

2022
01:20:06,590 --> 01:20:04,620
that really traumatic things have

2023
01:20:09,169 --> 01:20:06,600
happened people who have had

2024
01:20:12,229 --> 01:20:09,179
you know babies taken from them you know

2025
01:20:14,450 --> 01:20:12,239
in pregnant impregnation of women who

2026
01:20:16,689 --> 01:20:14,460
then have had babies taken and it

2027
01:20:20,330 --> 01:20:16,699
impacts them physiologically and whatnot

2028
01:20:21,709 --> 01:20:20,340
don't dismiss that don't belittle that

2029
01:20:23,630 --> 01:20:21,719
don't tell them that they're just

2030
01:20:25,669 --> 01:20:23,640
imagining it that there can't be such

2031
01:20:27,890 --> 01:20:25,679
thing as a negative non-human

2032
01:20:31,070 --> 01:20:27,900
intelligence yes there can be again not

2033
01:20:33,350 --> 01:20:31,080
so much evil but just immature on that

2034
01:20:35,090 --> 01:20:33,360
same sort of spiral of development like

2035
01:20:36,590 --> 01:20:35,100
all of us so

2036
01:20:37,910 --> 01:20:36,600
I just want to off that offer that

2037
01:20:39,350 --> 01:20:37,920
caveat that that

2038
01:20:41,149 --> 01:20:39,360
um just because my experience has been

2039
01:20:43,010 --> 01:20:41,159
positive doesn't mean I don't recognize

2040
01:20:44,090 --> 01:20:43,020
that other people's has not necessarily

2041
01:20:47,330 --> 01:20:44,100
been the same

2042
01:20:51,410 --> 01:20:47,340
mm-hmm it's it's just so important to

2043
01:20:54,649 --> 01:20:51,420
meet people where they are and to uh

2044
01:20:57,290 --> 01:20:54,659
listen first and uh and apply you know

2045
01:20:59,330 --> 01:20:57,300
your perspective second

2046
01:21:01,370 --> 01:20:59,340
um because most of the time people just

2047
01:21:04,490 --> 01:21:01,380
are looking for someone to listen you

2048
01:21:05,689 --> 01:21:04,500
know to hear them out and to to see them

2049
01:21:09,169 --> 01:21:05,699
as a person

2050
01:21:11,209 --> 01:21:09,179
not to jump in and you know more lies or

2051
01:21:13,430 --> 01:21:11,219
or overlay their own another

2052
01:21:15,050 --> 01:21:13,440
interpretation

2053
01:21:16,310 --> 01:21:15,060
um you know be a good conversation

2054
01:21:17,450 --> 01:21:16,320
partner

2055
01:21:20,390 --> 01:21:17,460
um

2056
01:21:23,149 --> 01:21:20,400
well I you know as we kind of get toward

2057
01:21:25,010 --> 01:21:23,159
the end of the episode

2058
01:21:26,689 --> 01:21:25,020
um I'll throw this question out there

2059
01:21:28,250 --> 01:21:26,699
you know we may not spend a lot of time

2060
01:21:30,350 --> 01:21:28,260
on it but

2061
01:21:32,270 --> 01:21:30,360
you know kind of where you are now and

2062
01:21:34,430 --> 01:21:32,280
you know

2063
01:21:37,370 --> 01:21:34,440
the way you're looking at things you

2064
01:21:38,870 --> 01:21:37,380
know are there any kind of areas that

2065
01:21:40,370 --> 01:21:38,880
you know you're looking for greater

2066
01:21:44,570 --> 01:21:40,380
Clarity you know is there is there

2067
01:21:47,930 --> 01:21:44,580
anything that you think would be

2068
01:21:50,209 --> 01:21:47,940
really beneficial to help complete the

2069
01:21:53,209 --> 01:21:50,219
picture that we currently have or that

2070
01:21:55,250 --> 01:21:53,219
you currently have will be more specific

2071
01:21:56,870 --> 01:21:55,260
um of what you think is going on that

2072
01:21:58,550 --> 01:21:56,880
would add to your insights you know

2073
01:22:00,350 --> 01:21:58,560
something that you know it's hard to

2074
01:22:02,750 --> 01:22:00,360
necessarily identify that which we don't

2075
01:22:04,370 --> 01:22:02,760
yet know but it's just something you

2076
01:22:08,390 --> 01:22:04,380
feel like would be great if you could

2077
01:22:13,430 --> 01:22:10,790
it's a good question because because of

2078
01:22:15,410 --> 01:22:13,440
the complexity that I just described uh

2079
01:22:18,950 --> 01:22:15,420
it's it's

2080
01:22:20,990 --> 01:22:18,960
difficult to know the full trajectory

2081
01:22:23,270 --> 01:22:21,000
you know to to have this sense of where

2082
01:22:24,649 --> 01:22:23,280
it's all leading because again I can

2083
01:22:26,209 --> 01:22:24,659
have a very

2084
01:22:28,610 --> 01:22:26,219
strong conviction about an experience

2085
01:22:30,890 --> 01:22:28,620
that I'm having and something I feel led

2086
01:22:33,649 --> 01:22:30,900
to do uh

2087
01:22:36,890 --> 01:22:33,659
but you know there are other groups that

2088
01:22:39,290 --> 01:22:36,900
have different intentions when we talk

2089
01:22:42,229 --> 01:22:39,300
about you know this ramping up that

2090
01:22:43,850 --> 01:22:42,239
seems to be happening uh when you take a

2091
01:22:46,130 --> 01:22:43,860
look at something like

2092
01:22:48,470 --> 01:22:46,140
you know UFOs showing up over nuclear

2093
01:22:50,209 --> 01:22:48,480
facilities for instance

2094
01:22:51,950 --> 01:22:50,219
again just like we talked about in

2095
01:22:53,930 --> 01:22:51,960
religious tradition

2096
01:22:56,689 --> 01:22:53,940
people are very dogmatic

2097
01:22:58,729 --> 01:22:56,699
in their perspectives on that

2098
01:23:01,430 --> 01:22:58,739
I don't hear that many people saying

2099
01:23:03,830 --> 01:23:01,440
listen you could equally see that as a

2100
01:23:06,110 --> 01:23:03,840
as a positive or as a negative right

2101
01:23:08,689 --> 01:23:06,120
you usually get people saying clearly

2102
01:23:11,270 --> 01:23:08,699
they're showing up to say listen you

2103
01:23:13,729 --> 01:23:11,280
fools don't play around with this energy

2104
01:23:15,830 --> 01:23:13,739
you're splitting the very substance of

2105
01:23:17,630 --> 01:23:15,840
of reality you know when you split the

2106
01:23:20,689 --> 01:23:17,640
atom and releasing these destructive

2107
01:23:22,689 --> 01:23:20,699
forces that in you know impact even

2108
01:23:25,430 --> 01:23:22,699
interdimensional domains and whatnot

2109
01:23:26,689 --> 01:23:25,440
sure that's that's a that's a valid

2110
01:23:29,030 --> 01:23:26,699
interpretation

2111
01:23:30,709 --> 01:23:29,040
but you'll get other people who say just

2112
01:23:33,050 --> 01:23:30,719
as adamantly

2113
01:23:35,630 --> 01:23:33,060
these guys are scoping us out they're

2114
01:23:36,950 --> 01:23:35,640
they're checking our weapon systems

2115
01:23:39,530 --> 01:23:36,960
they're making sure that they can

2116
01:23:41,510 --> 01:23:39,540
disable them when they need to in

2117
01:23:44,149 --> 01:23:41,520
preparation for some sort of domination

2118
01:23:46,250 --> 01:23:44,159
over us or something and you have to be

2119
01:23:48,229 --> 01:23:46,260
honest that apart from my own personal

2120
01:23:49,970 --> 01:23:48,239
experience for instance you just look at

2121
01:23:53,030 --> 01:23:49,980
that on the face of it and those are

2122
01:23:56,090 --> 01:23:53,040
both sort of equally valid possibilities

2123
01:23:58,610 --> 01:23:56,100
in terms of gathering intelligence

2124
01:24:00,770 --> 01:23:58,620
um and

2125
01:24:01,790 --> 01:24:00,780
so I certainly feel like I have a sense

2126
01:24:03,950 --> 01:24:01,800
of

2127
01:24:07,250 --> 01:24:03,960
what I'm in contact with and where

2128
01:24:08,870 --> 01:24:07,260
that's going and and but where that fits

2129
01:24:10,910 --> 01:24:08,880
into the big picture is a different

2130
01:24:13,130 --> 01:24:10,920
question you know and uh

2131
01:24:14,390 --> 01:24:13,140
I know that I've discussed with you

2132
01:24:15,770 --> 01:24:14,400
before and

2133
01:24:17,750 --> 01:24:15,780
I even got a chance to talk to Ken

2134
01:24:21,229 --> 01:24:17,760
Wilbur about it uh a while back in

2135
01:24:24,410 --> 01:24:21,239
Denver and that is that

2136
01:24:26,930 --> 01:24:24,420
just because we've so far you know

2137
01:24:28,310 --> 01:24:26,940
had New World Views come online we've

2138
01:24:30,530 --> 01:24:28,320
seen Consciousness move forward with

2139
01:24:32,689 --> 01:24:30,540
Humanity that's no guarantee that it

2140
01:24:34,070 --> 01:24:32,699
will always move forward you can have a

2141
01:24:35,810 --> 01:24:34,080
regression we've seen some of that in

2142
01:24:38,330 --> 01:24:35,820
our American society

2143
01:24:40,310 --> 01:24:38,340
but you can actually

2144
01:24:44,270 --> 01:24:40,320
just have the whole thing blow up right

2145
01:24:45,709 --> 01:24:44,280
and and what's amazing or telling uh in

2146
01:24:47,270 --> 01:24:45,719
kind of a sobering way is that when you

2147
01:24:49,610 --> 01:24:47,280
listen to experience for accounts again

2148
01:24:52,250 --> 01:24:49,620
a lot of these non-human intelligences

2149
01:24:54,530 --> 01:24:52,260
are saying that many civilizations who

2150
01:24:59,510 --> 01:24:54,540
get to our Point actually don't end well

2151
01:25:02,930 --> 01:24:59,520
that this this toxic mix between

2152
01:25:05,750 --> 01:25:02,940
a high technological capacity with a low

2153
01:25:08,689 --> 01:25:05,760
level of Consciousness doesn't mix well

2154
01:25:10,850 --> 01:25:08,699
and um we could probably between the two

2155
01:25:12,830 --> 01:25:10,860
of us name five or six waves that we're

2156
01:25:15,169 --> 01:25:12,840
destroying ourselves as a civilization

2157
01:25:17,450 --> 01:25:15,179
as we speak uh so that that's something

2158
01:25:19,490 --> 01:25:17,460
that I I definitely would love Clarity

2159
01:25:21,350 --> 01:25:19,500
on is is how all this is going to play

2160
01:25:23,810 --> 01:25:21,360
out in terms of these different groups

2161
01:25:25,370 --> 01:25:23,820
that are all simultaneously here with

2162
01:25:26,810 --> 01:25:25,380
different agendas

2163
01:25:29,990 --> 01:25:26,820
mm-hmm

2164
01:25:32,450 --> 01:25:30,000
yeah I would agree to that for sure and

2165
01:25:35,450 --> 01:25:32,460
and to add to that um

2166
01:25:38,330 --> 01:25:35,460
you know I I would love like many of our

2167
01:25:41,870 --> 01:25:38,340
listeners would I'm sure to know more

2168
01:25:44,149 --> 01:25:41,880
about our own government's explicit

2169
01:25:46,970 --> 01:25:44,159
relationship

2170
01:25:47,930 --> 01:25:46,980
um with this topic

2171
01:25:50,030 --> 01:25:47,940
um

2172
01:25:52,729 --> 01:25:50,040
you know I'm I'm just as curious about

2173
01:25:56,810 --> 01:25:52,739
the the crash retrievals the the

2174
01:25:58,189 --> 01:25:56,820
technology the different beings uh the

2175
01:26:00,229 --> 01:25:58,199
uh

2176
01:26:01,550 --> 01:26:00,239
the learnings and and the experiments

2177
01:26:04,129 --> 01:26:01,560
that we've conducted to try to

2178
01:26:07,610 --> 01:26:04,139
understand what this is if nothing else

2179
01:26:11,570 --> 01:26:07,620
but to also I think

2180
01:26:14,270 --> 01:26:11,580
bring into greater Focus uh

2181
01:26:18,410 --> 01:26:14,280
the lenses in which our our leadership

2182
01:26:20,930 --> 01:26:18,420
has approached this topic over time you

2183
01:26:22,729 --> 01:26:20,940
know you know I would hope that our

2184
01:26:25,729 --> 01:26:22,739
listeners

2185
01:26:28,729 --> 01:26:25,739
um would be well equipped right any with

2186
01:26:30,250 --> 01:26:28,739
any new sort of revelatory

2187
01:26:33,709 --> 01:26:30,260
um

2188
01:26:36,290 --> 01:26:33,719
disclosure that we might see that that

2189
01:26:39,770 --> 01:26:36,300
we can look at that and go oh okay like

2190
01:26:42,350 --> 01:26:39,780
I see why we may have done that or I I'm

2191
01:26:44,030 --> 01:26:42,360
seeing that uh

2192
01:26:46,850 --> 01:26:44,040
the reason they did that was because

2193
01:26:49,850 --> 01:26:46,860
they interpreted it like this and that

2194
01:26:53,030 --> 01:26:49,860
interpretation is grounded in this

2195
01:26:54,410 --> 01:26:53,040
perspective you know because I I think

2196
01:26:56,750 --> 01:26:54,420
we could um

2197
01:26:59,570 --> 01:26:56,760
if we if we weren't

2198
01:27:01,990 --> 01:26:59,580
constantly trying to reinforce this uh

2199
01:27:04,810 --> 01:27:02,000
you know sort of multi-perspectival

2200
01:27:07,970 --> 01:27:04,820
methodology that we like to lean into

2201
01:27:10,370 --> 01:27:07,980
that it would be very easy for us to get

2202
01:27:11,750 --> 01:27:10,380
these learnings and be like well I uh

2203
01:27:13,070 --> 01:27:11,760
you know that makes sense to me now and

2204
01:27:15,229 --> 01:27:13,080
I guess that you know they really are

2205
01:27:17,450 --> 01:27:15,239
demons you know like I mean that would

2206
01:27:19,790 --> 01:27:17,460
be like my biggest letdown is like uh

2207
01:27:21,350 --> 01:27:19,800
you know fans of our show would you know

2208
01:27:23,030 --> 01:27:21,360
hear somebody the president or someone

2209
01:27:24,830 --> 01:27:23,040
say like you know we kept this from you

2210
01:27:26,570 --> 01:27:24,840
because it turns out they were demons

2211
01:27:28,669 --> 01:27:26,580
and our folks were just like well I knew

2212
01:27:30,229 --> 01:27:28,679
it the whole time I mean that I would

2213
01:27:33,229 --> 01:27:30,239
just be like well we we missed it

2214
01:27:35,149 --> 01:27:33,239
somewhere we didn't do our job so

2215
01:27:37,070 --> 01:27:35,159
um I don't know what you think about

2216
01:27:40,250 --> 01:27:37,080
that though

2217
01:27:43,129 --> 01:27:40,260
yeah I mean I think that's that's a huge

2218
01:27:44,090 --> 01:27:43,139
question too is that and this ties us

2219
01:27:45,770 --> 01:27:44,100
back to the very beginning of this

2220
01:27:47,990 --> 01:27:45,780
conversation

2221
01:27:50,209 --> 01:27:48,000
there's data and there's interpretation

2222
01:27:51,530 --> 01:27:50,219
of data and

2223
01:27:53,810 --> 01:27:51,540
um you know

2224
01:27:55,070 --> 01:27:53,820
whoever happens to be in power at the

2225
01:27:57,290 --> 01:27:55,080
time that this disclosure actually

2226
01:28:01,010 --> 01:27:57,300
happens on a more widespread scale

2227
01:28:03,290 --> 01:28:01,020
they have the privileged position of

2228
01:28:05,689 --> 01:28:03,300
also shaping The Narrative right not

2229
01:28:07,250 --> 01:28:05,699
saying this is the raw phenomena because

2230
01:28:09,110 --> 01:28:07,260
that's not what most people want most

2231
01:28:11,030 --> 01:28:09,120
people want you to tell them what it is

2232
01:28:12,590 --> 01:28:11,040
what it means right what are the

2233
01:28:14,390 --> 01:28:12,600
implications

2234
01:28:18,709 --> 01:28:14,400
how is this going to change my life and

2235
01:28:20,689 --> 01:28:18,719
so that also is a that's you know is

2236
01:28:22,850 --> 01:28:20,699
that an accident of history is it is it

2237
01:28:25,669 --> 01:28:22,860
being planned as well that's going to be

2238
01:28:28,129 --> 01:28:25,679
an interesting uh point in time to look

2239
01:28:30,649 --> 01:28:28,139
back on that whoever is in power at that

2240
01:28:33,169 --> 01:28:30,659
time that has that responsibility to try

2241
01:28:35,390 --> 01:28:33,179
and shape this describe it and pass it

2242
01:28:37,870 --> 01:28:35,400
on to the masses that's that's that's a

2243
01:28:41,330 --> 01:28:37,880
heavy burden to carry

2244
01:28:44,330 --> 01:28:41,340
yeah definitely well I've enjoyed this

2245
01:28:46,129 --> 01:28:44,340
conversation uh very much at um

2246
01:28:48,350 --> 01:28:46,139
you know it it's one of those times

2247
01:28:50,149 --> 01:28:48,360
where uh

2248
01:28:52,729 --> 01:28:50,159
no matter how much planning we do before

2249
01:28:54,229 --> 01:28:52,739
we get on to do the show when we

2250
01:28:57,169 --> 01:28:54,239
actually do the show and walk through

2251
01:28:59,090 --> 01:28:57,179
the topics that we intended to cover

2252
01:29:00,890 --> 01:28:59,100
um I have these kinds of moments where

2253
01:29:03,410 --> 01:29:00,900
you know we've kind of talked about this

2254
01:29:05,810 --> 01:29:03,420
in private before where it feels as if

2255
01:29:08,450 --> 01:29:05,820
we've had this conversation before

2256
01:29:11,030 --> 01:29:08,460
um you know or even I will say this and

2257
01:29:14,390 --> 01:29:11,040
this is speaking to what I said earlier

2258
01:29:16,669 --> 01:29:14,400
with this uh you know perspective of

2259
01:29:20,510 --> 01:29:16,679
that we're all connected there are many

2260
01:29:22,490 --> 01:29:20,520
times in our conversation where I feel

2261
01:29:24,530 --> 01:29:22,500
part of what you were saying like like

2262
01:29:27,169 --> 01:29:24,540
like connected to what you're saying is

2263
01:29:27,770 --> 01:29:27,179
if I am saying it you know

2264
01:29:30,169 --> 01:29:27,780
um

2265
01:29:32,330 --> 01:29:30,179
you know the these kinds of things blend

2266
01:29:34,010 --> 01:29:32,340
together and and at the same time that

2267
01:29:36,709 --> 01:29:34,020
I'm thinking about a little listeners as

2268
01:29:39,050 --> 01:29:36,719
well and like I would you know try to

2269
01:29:42,110 --> 01:29:39,060
put myself into their shoes and and

2270
01:29:44,629 --> 01:29:42,120
understand what they're hearing so

2271
01:29:46,430 --> 01:29:44,639
um it's been a real pleasure and uh I

2272
01:29:48,649 --> 01:29:46,440
want to wish you well on this coming

2273
01:29:50,209 --> 01:29:48,659
weekend although by the time this airs

2274
01:29:53,030 --> 01:29:50,219
that we'll already have concluded that's

2275
01:29:55,129 --> 01:29:53,040
right uh maybe just like those PSI

2276
01:29:58,850 --> 01:29:55,139
experiments uh I'm gonna say it was a

2277
01:29:59,450 --> 01:29:58,860
smashing success and it no doubt will be

2278
01:30:02,390 --> 01:29:59,460
um

2279
01:30:04,430 --> 01:30:02,400
and uh I look forward to uh to listening

2280
01:30:05,870 --> 01:30:04,440
to it and and hearing all about the

2281
01:30:08,090 --> 01:30:05,880
encounters that you have with so many

2282
01:30:10,250 --> 01:30:08,100
people that we have had the pleasure of

2283
01:30:12,050 --> 01:30:10,260
interacting with uh virtually and you'll

2284
01:30:13,610 --> 01:30:12,060
get to meet in person

2285
01:30:16,550 --> 01:30:13,620
again I'll just quickly add before we

2286
01:30:19,070 --> 01:30:16,560
sign off here that for all the the valid

2287
01:30:21,110 --> 01:30:19,080
concerns people have about social media

2288
01:30:22,669 --> 01:30:21,120
it's been a pretty amazing mechanism to

2289
01:30:24,470 --> 01:30:22,679
connect all these people and that we're

2290
01:30:26,510 --> 01:30:24,480
all going to meet in person and there's

2291
01:30:28,669 --> 01:30:26,520
a real affection that's that's formed

2292
01:30:30,470 --> 01:30:28,679
around this community and and it's going

2293
01:30:31,970 --> 01:30:30,480
to be living breathing in 3D this uh

2294
01:30:33,110 --> 01:30:31,980
this upcoming weekend and hopefully

2295
01:30:34,010 --> 01:30:33,120
that's just the beginning of many many

2296
01:30:36,770 --> 01:30:34,020
more

2297
01:30:38,750 --> 01:30:36,780
I know it will be I know it will be

2298
01:30:41,330 --> 01:30:38,760
well thank you for listening and uh for

2299
01:30:44,450 --> 01:30:41,340
tuning in uh as we close May the quality

2300
01:30:46,790 --> 01:30:44,460
of our questions shaped by a desire for

2301
01:30:49,010 --> 01:30:46,800
understanding enhance our journey of

2302
01:30:50,330 --> 01:30:49,020
Discovery and may our travels broaden

2303
01:30:52,850 --> 01:30:50,340
the sphere of our Consciousness

2304
01:30:57,050 --> 01:30:52,860
reminding us that new discoveries beget

2305
01:30:59,149 --> 01:30:57,060
New Horizons as always Adventure awaits

2306
01:31:02,800 --> 01:30:59,159
we'll see you next time on liminal

2307
01:31:06,600 --> 01:31:05,030
[Music]

2308
01:31:12,900 --> 01:31:06,610
[Laughter]